S/o Exposing children to financial hardship-good or bad?

amother

White

Sat, Jan 06 2018, 10:27 pm

It seems like some people think that if they don’t buy their child everything they want, their child will feel poor. I grew up wealthy with parents who were big believers in discipline. We got treats for YT, shabbos, long distance road trips, good behavior, charts, report cards, etc. we didn’t feel poor and we definitely didn’t get things every time we walked into a store!(regardless of the cost of the item)

mommy3b2c

Sat, Jan 06 2018, 11:00 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

bad.

kids can learn budgeting and being responsible without knowing the family finances. it is scary for children to worry about money and really not their responsibility.

This. My mom always tells me that we were quite tight when I was young, and I don’t remember it at all. They budgeted and saved and were very careful and we always had needs and wants and we never felt it at all.

amother

Beige

Sat, Jan 06 2018, 11:12 pm

I grew up poor and knew it, and it was quite worrisome.
My husband grew up rich and knew it, and that was quite worrisome (he has horrible financial habits now, and has no concept of money. He doesn't understand what it means that my parents are "poor," and actually asked me to ask my father to give us money monthly shortly after we got married! $200 a month to my husband seemed like chump change; to my father, it's a LOT of money!)

Bottom line: rich or poor, teach your children good financial habits such as budgeting, saving etc.
don't let your children know if you have a substantial savings account for them; my husband knew he had money waiting for him, and he therefore didn't do well in college because he never felt like he "had" to; it was all waiting for him On a silver platter. Now we're facing trouble because of these attitudes.

Don't say "we can't afford it," instead say, "no, I don't think we can buy that right now," or "no, that's not something I want to spend on right now."

Surrendered

Sat, Jan 06 2018, 11:25 pm

We explained to the kids the difference between needing and wanting. We told them that Hashem always gives us money for what we need, if it's important. (If we don't have the money, it means that we don't need it or that it can wait). If you really want something, ask Hashem. If He knows it's good for you to have it, He will give us the money for it.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 2:20 am

amother wrote:

OK could be, but what struck me was more that they poster said Im saving the money for zoo house ect

It was example
I try to pick something that that particular child is lookingforward too, ex trip to zoo or for my kid that keeps asking when we're going to buy a house, a house. Or pizza dinner, etc. I would never buy each kid a prize every time we go into a store - that adds up! Maybe if they see a treat they really wanted, we would get to save for shabbos party. Etc.

weasley

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 3:19 am

Surrendered wrote:

My parents did exactly this, they really really struggled financially (neighbors would send in their kids old clothes for us

)but as a kid I dont remember feeling poor, my mother would keep telling us that if it's something we need hashem will always send us the money, so there was never any chanuka or afikomen presents and when we were old enough to choose our birthday presents it was always no matter the age a $2 budget -my parents simply couldnt afford more. Yes sometimes it was really difficult, I remeber lying to my classmate what I got for a afikoman present nc they went round asking everybody and I was so embarrassed! But I always knew my parents tried there very best getting us stuff that was the social norm so that we wouldn't be a total social outcast!

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 8:59 am

weasley wrote:

My parents did exactly this, they really really struggled financially (neighbors would send in their kids old clothes for us

What's wrong with hand me downs from neighbors? We got and passed our stuff further as they can still be used but didn't fit.
I still give or take as needed on purpose to show that if we don't need an item someone else can or is someone has something we can use, we use it.
Granted when I was a kid it had better fit as that's all there was and with my kids, I make sure they have what they need, almost never more unless there's something they really really want and we discuss how to get it as it's an extra.

I grew up "poor", could never have anything, always felt I didn't deserve anything.

I worked really hard on finding a good healthy attitude now with my kids. I explain wants and needs and the value of having good things plus saving, house purchase etc.
I'm not wealthy but BH manage now, I let kids know if something is really wanted, we can discuss and figure out how they can get it, either earning through behavior or/and partial financing of their own depending on age.

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 10:29 am

Growing up I felt like it was wrong for me to have wants. Needs, yes--I had everything I needed. But I wouldnt ask for money for treats, splurges etc.

As an adult, I realized my parents were millionares when I was growing up. They inherited the attitudes of their Holocaust surviving parents. Kids need to feel like their wants are impt too. They cant get all their wants but they are to be respected.

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 11:33 am

We were always tight, but ok with it, we don't need a lot and are trying our best to raise our kids the same way. Unfortunately for the past few years we are pretty poor. We always have enough food, but cheap food, a lot of pasta and eggs, but we usually have to pay by credit card and the credit card debt is climbing. Other than food we hardly spend. We are always late on the mortgage, sometimes scary, getting foreclosure notices late, we are late on everything else, very often paying the electric bill just in time to avoid a shutoff.

We literally do not have any money for any extras, no bought pizza or icecream, no buying the same backpack as everyone else, no buying those cute shoes even though they are on sale. I don't even walk into a dollar store anymore because I don't have an extra $5 to buy one thing for each one. Forget about the biggies like braces that are desperately needed. Or music lessons which would be an amazing thing for one of my kids.

In the beginning I agreed with everyone that you never tell kids you can't afford it. But now it's either tell them I can't afford it or tell them I really don't care about you or your happiness at all. If I have no good reason why I'm not getting braces for a girl who is embarrassed to open her mouth, then I would look like the most horrible, uncaring mother to my kids. I would rather tell them we can't afford it than tell them I don't care about you at all.

So I think it depends what not affording it means to you.

amother

Lavender

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 11:44 am

My parents used to say that's too expensive. to describe something we couldn't afford. My parents bought what they valued family valued. My parent always said you dont need what the jonses have its not necesary good for you. Sometimes we didn't get what we wanted but we felt so loved. and a mother knows best attitude, examples include. My mother bought me a cheap imitation 18 inch doll with a cheap bed and she sewed a pillow and blanket for it. it equalled $20 all together. A free hand me down bike and bought a $5 licence plate to put on the back. In the summer my parent couldn't afford the camps major trip for all of us. She kept us all home which was hard and promised to take us on a trip another day which we did. It was free hiking trip. 95 percent of my friends were able to go on the trip and I couldn't. I thought trips cost money we couldn't afford both and my family values family trips more important. when I became a teenager I had more peer presure my parent insist we work to get some of what we wanted. I did babysitting,worked as a counselor and became a junior lifeguard.Non of it interfered with my social life it was all done only part time with friends My parents did buy me a small amount of very expensive presents that fit in to value system. I was one of the first in my class to have a digital camera when it first came out. see kids today have so much entitlement parent are scared to say no. They are afraid there child will be the only one. Not all fads are necessary. Figit spinners, and $60 smart watch these parents are the ones creating the problem for all of us.

amother

Slategray

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 11:56 am

I think it's fine to say we can't afford it now and then. It's good to teach that money is finite. But they should not have to worry that their basic needs won't be met, that's very scary for a child. My parents are well off. But they fought about money all the time. Ugly, horrible fights. They ended up getting divorced. Not surprising, fighting over money is one of the top causes of divorce. I had everything I wanted, I think they spent the rest of my childhood trying to "make it up" to me through material means. Anyway, I got bad messages all around- both from getting everything I wanted, and from witnessing fights about money.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 12:10 pm

I was raised tight and technically my needs were covered. But my parents raised us on principal to ignore what othets had. And it always bothered me because my social need to go with my friends for pizza once a month was totally discounted. My mothrr actually said I should either bring a sandwich with, invite my friends for homemade pizza at home, or stop chasing frienships with materialistic money thrower outer friends. Her words.
Money is tight for me. But I use the words budget more than afford.
When my daughter asks me for another dress ill tell her that I could put in $50and shell have to work for the rest.
When she asks me for $5 for pizza with her friends, I tell her that id love to but all my extra money is going for her new yom tov dress but she can choose to buy a cheaper dress and use that money, forgo the pizza in favor of the dress, or earn the money.
My parents never let us earn money for pizza becsuse it was a waste of money to use any of our babysitting money for pizza.
The lack of choice and say burned me up more than the lack of money.

Laiya

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 12:18 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

bad.

kids can learn budgeting and being responsible without knowing the family finances. it is scary for children to worry about money and really not their responsibility.

This.

It's parents' responsibility to take care of their childrens' needs.

Parents need to decide what are needs vs wants. Needs can include, the need to fit in socially.

Needs can also include, the need to learn self-control, and that real happiness doesn't come from "things".

But the parents' own financial situation, and what they choose to spend money on, is not relevant to this.

Ellie7

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 12:41 pm

I grew up poor surrounded by rich friends, and my parents always emphasized the difference (invite her to your birthday party because she's rich so she'll give you a good present, looking up what friends' parents paid for their houses, etc.). And if they needed a discount on a school trip or a yearbook ad or whatnot, I was the one who had to talk to the appropriate person at school. Needless to say, it led to a very unhealthy relationship with money.

That said, I don't think my parents should have bought things they couldn't afford or even fooled me into thinking we had money that we didn't have. But I do think it's a fine line to not making your kids feel less-than and definitely not emphasizing the disparity.

Amarante

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 12:58 pm

The title of this is financial hardship which to me, implies more than just needing to be careful with money - or trying to instill an appropriate value system regarding material objects.

Financial hardship is not having enough money for basic needs - food, rent, heat, medical care and I don't think any child should be exposed to that fear of not having basic needs being able to be met by their parents.

To the extent possible, parents should shield children from that kind of fear - that's completely different than setting financial boundaries and not buying everything a child wants and explains in age appropriate terms why they will not get whatever it is.

southernbubby

Sun, Jan 07 2018, 3:41 pm

While we can't live in the past, as in past centuries, there was a point in history where on laundry day, the family went naked and stayed under the covers. Bread and milk sufficed as a meal and children were taught to be grateful for that. Many parents had to put their children to bed hungry because there was no food on some days in poor homes. It was possibly cold in those homes from lack of money for fuel and heat. I am not sure how those parents explained it.

My father's parents divorced when he was 2, and he was a child of the Great Depression. Children with fathers had easier lives than he did and starting at age 6 he was doing odd jobs and by age 9 was making more than his mother was. My husband's grandmother was orphaned of her father at age 9, when his horse drawn wagon fell over and at age 9, she went to the bank to take out a loan so that her mother could run the store.

Jewish children in Russia sold items on the black market to feed their families. I am not sure what these families told their children as to why their lives were hard rather than the carefree lives that children are supposed to have but we have to remember these things when we are busy explaining to children why they can't have designer shoes or compete with their friends for the best shaloch manos. Yes, they resent being told that their parents can't afford what others have and to them it seems as though their are being denied a necessity and we wouldn't want to chas v'sholem relive the poverty of the past, but they need to hear these stories of what children lived like a century ago because those children would have lived like kings if they had what many underprivileged children have today.