Hitting an 18 month old child is wrong

Mommyg8

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 1:47 pm

amother wrote:

Any parenting book (jewish and not jewish) will tell you not to hit a kid. And sure not a little toddler. A child that age doesnt understand why he gets a potch. He only learns that hitting is ok.
Grown-ups should b an example to kids and not teach them to hit.
A older child, after warning can get a potch once in a bleu moon.

That is actually not true. Read Dr. Burton White's parenting books; he did extensive research on child raising, and he found that some kind of corporal punishment was the magic ingredient to having good kids. He spent his entire life researching this, unlike some other so-called parenting experts, whose entire expertise consisted of reading other people's reports.

And looking around at general society, I'm not seeing a huge success in the "no-hitting" policy.

Of course, I differentiate between a light potch and abuse. As should any human being.

dancingqueen

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 1:58 pm

SuperWify wrote:

We are from different generations Mommyg8.

You can get your message across with a strong NO. You can remove the child’s hand gently, or hold is away, but hitting is never ok.

A child needs love in this crazy world.

Strongly agree!

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 1:58 pm

Just to add to what mommyg8 is saying, many (most?) of the studies that claim hitting leads to worse problems and is never beneficial are referring to spanking hard on the behind, which was once the norm in classrooms and homes practically everywhere.

An occasional light slap on the hand that is prefaced by a calm explanation and followed by a hug is a whole different story.

amother

Ruby

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 2:34 pm

I don't believe in hitting at any age.

1. Hitting =/= discipline. Effective discipline can be achieved just fine without hitting. I've never hit my children and I get complimented all the time on how well-behaved they are most certainly not the ones everyone comes on here to complain about. And no, I don't have easy children, some of them have significant behavioral challenges.

2. Mishlei does not need to be taken literally. The word used is "shivto", which means his scepter. Kings did not use their scepters for beating. The scepter is a symbol of authority. Parents must have clear authority over their kids, but coporal punishment is not required for achieving that authority.

3. Violent criminals are actually more likely to have been hit at home than not. Obviously there are a lot of factors that go into why some people become criminals, it's not like hitting directly makes criminals, but the idea that kids who aren't hit enough grow up to be criminals is laughable.

leah233

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 2:48 pm

amother wrote:

Points (1) & (3) are anecdotal

While one can argue that the posuk in Mishlei does not refer to today's situation, a scepter is a שַׁרְבִיט not a shevet.

You will be doing all of us a tremendous favor if you share how you managed to raise children with significant behavioral challenges so well that you get complimented all the time on how well-behaved they are. Can you please share specific tips with us?

amother

Orchid

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 2:55 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I'm not familiar with him but I just googled and it seems like his books were published in the '70's and early '80's, so any research he had done would be out of date.

Also, a reviewer on amazon said that he claims having children closer spaced than 3 years apart is child abuse.

Sounds like a book I'd take with a grain of salt.

amother

Violet

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:02 pm

cnc wrote:

I’m just curious, why must you specifically hit them in order to teach them a lesson?

on a little child, words don’t have the same effect and they don’t understand your point. They’re just too young. This is why people are saying when their child is doing something very dangerous they’ll hit. Because words and timeout don’t get the message across the same way. So now the question is, how often do you rely on hitting to get your point across? Or do you allow your message / point to go over their heads, because it’s more important not to hit? I always thought like super wify, but I got older, and my kids got older, (I believe her child is a year or so?) and I realized that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a light potch once in awhile for dangerous behavior. Sometimes they need to learn the hard way that it’s a no go. All these other methods don’t work the same. Time out and stern “no”’s dont always work. I also realized that very little children will never remember it - and so I no longer worry about scarring them for life.

alis_al_kulana

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:02 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Sorry but

And It’s a common trope that you have to hit toddlers to teach them not to run into the street or touch the stove but I’ve never found that necessary.

I have. A light potch only in those occasions is very important.

You remind me of the friend who, upon seeing my extremely child proof kitchen, asked me " why don't you just tell them they're not allowed to open the drawers? ""

amother

Blonde

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:04 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Sorry but

And It’s a common trope that you have to hit toddlers to teach them not to run into the street or touch the stove but I’ve never found that necessary.

I hope you vomited all the wine out of your system

amother

Blonde

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:07 pm

amother wrote:

So let your child run wild, play with fire, punch other kids, good luck with that.

For the record people have always complements me on my kids good behavior becuse they remember when on particular child was always getting into trouble bh with Hashem's help we have been able to teach him in a loving way what's right from wrong. My other kids never needed it for they simply were good kids from day one.

Mommyg8

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:14 pm

leah233 wrote:

I also get compliments on how well behaved my children are, and the secret is....

They are born good!!! Honestly!!!

Some children need more discipline than others.

I had this argument with a friend recently - she's a parenting teacher, and she obviously teaches that it is never ok to potch. I asked her, what do you teach your parents to do? She said that it's important to get creative.

Now, for those lucky enough to have lots of creativity and/or lots of time to talk and/or reason with your children, I'm all pro! Kuddos to you and I hope you have lots of nachas from your children! But I'm not particularly creative, and I don't always have the time. This is what works for me.

And for those of you who are wondering - I follow Rabbi Dr. Twerski's advice, and I only potch for chutzpah.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:15 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Sorry but

And It’s a common trope that you have to hit toddlers to teach them not to run into the street or touch the stove but I’ve never found that necessary.

Right. You get down at face level, look directly into their eyes and speak in a very stern tone.

And continue to have follow up conversations regarding safety.

That said, it's probably ok to hit for safety on very rare occasions IF it's not out of anger.

leah233

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:17 pm

amother wrote:

If you brushing aside child rasing advice only because it is forty years old why not be ahead of the times and ignore what todays experts say too?

Mommyg8

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:19 pm

amother wrote:

His research was done at the same time that Dr. Spock and Dr. Brazelton et.al. were advocating the "never hit" approach. So the research is contemporary. And of course, children are children, whatever decade they are born in. Children aren't different just because they are born in 2018 instead of 1980.

I read his books (years ago, when my oldest kids were little). He does say that having children closer than three years apart is very stressful on the mother and/or caregiver, but I have never seen that he wrote that it's child abuse. And frum parents ARE having children further spaced apart then before, so there must be something to what he was saying.

He also changed his recommendation about hitting in his later years based on popular pressure, but his newer method, which basically consists of putting the small child in a separate locked area, is IMHO, more traumatic than hitting.

amother

Violet

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:21 pm

I’m reminded of the post a few months ago about the two year old who would lock the family out of the house and run around inside unattended until somehow the mother got in. Clearly a dangerous situation. And a two year old is clearly too young to reason with. And this happened repeatedly. I wonder - a clear warning with what the consequence would be, followed by executing the threat - a real potch - how many would it have taken? Especially a kid that never got one. I wonder if even two.[quote]

amother

Wine

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:22 pm

amother wrote:

The other parent is not assertive and didn't say anything to their spouse.

You don't know what the other parent said/says to the spouse in a private moment. Don't necessarily assume this wasn't dealt with later on in private, away from guests and the kids and also not in the heat of the moment. DH and I often check in with each other later, in private, so as not to undermine the other in front of other people.

amother

Hotpink

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:28 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Why in the world would you listen to his advice altogether if he advocates such traumatic techniques such as locking children away? IMHO he is not a worthwhile voice of advice, so I would discard his hitting advice as well. Let's listen to people that have something to actually teach us and help our children's development, not traumatize them.