Hitting an 18 month old child is wrong

amother

Orchid

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:34 pm

leah233 wrote:

If you brushing aside child rasing advice only because it is forty years old why not be ahead of the times and ignore what todays experts say too?

Are you saying that there have been no advances in understanding in the fields of psychology, neurology, child development, etc. etc. in the last 40 years?

Mommyg8

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:35 pm

amother wrote:

Why in the world would you listen to his advice altogether if he advocates such traumatic techniques such as locking children away? IMHO he is not a worthwhile voice of advice, so I would discard his hitting advice as well. Let's listen to people that have something to actually teach us and help our children's development, not traumatize them.

Because he has done 40 years doing research on this topic. Locking children (in a place where they can still be seen) is something he advocated in his later years, with zero research behind it.

I certainly am NOT following his advice (on any level) and I read his books out of interest, certainly not following them like Halacha L'Moshe M'sinai, I just pointed out that NOT all parenting experts actually agree that corporal punishment is detrimental.

In my life, dh and I follow the way we were raised (and did not see any problems with the way we were raised, at least not in this area Smile

).

And I know that I am from a different generation, but I am still raising young children in THIS generation, and as far as I can tell, my younger ones are no different than my older ones. In the way they act in general, and the way they react to discipline (or the lack thereof) specifically.

I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind - if you don't believe in it, you won't. I'm just trying to get my point across - that my method is a valid method of chinuch. I think the absolutes of NEVER, NEVER, NEVER should NEVER be said.

thunderstorm

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:37 pm

amother wrote:

I was advised by a psychologist to do just that , lock my kid in a room etc. She let me know how bad my parenting was and that I was too lenient and needed to crack down. I felt like I didn't have a choice, since I was given an ultimatum by my sons Headstart program that if I didn't see this schools approved psychologist they would expel him . So I followed this craziness of locking him in his room on time out. The first time he kicked the door until the doorframe cracked and broke . The next time I did it, he suddenly walked through my front door. He had climbed out of the window!!! ( we lived on the ground floor) and jet himself back into the house. That was the "modern day psychologists advice". Well, I stopped with that pretty quickly. She is someone that didn't believe in potching. She preferred this method.
I have since learned to raise my children according to the way I see fit and see what works for the child and for me.

Teomima

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:42 pm

I am so disturbed by this thread.

I am of the school of thought that hitting is never okay. For what it's worth, my mother hit me twice: once when I ran out into the street, and once when I called her a b*tch. I don't hold either time against her. But otherwise I was raised in a house where children were never hit, and I do not believe it is ever necessary.

We teach our children by example, and I don't want my kids to think hitting is ever permissible, so I don't hit them. When they are young, I repeat instructions like a broken record until they learn or, if necessary, physically remove them from a situation. As they got older, time outs gave them that much needed break and willingness to listen and learn from their punishment. Now that the oldest ones are outgrowing time outs, they're of an age where they fully understand right from wrong, and can understand consequences without needing any sort of punishment (so, no, you don't need to hit to raise nice, pleasant, polite, helpful children).

As for extreme situations, like running out into traffic or getting too close to fire, that's when my yelling voice comes out (as it does when I've repeated something, and been ignored, 3 times. My kids know this).

I suppose, if you have trouble regulating your tone, and tend to yell often, you might feel there's no choice other than to hit occasionally. But if you struggle that much with impulse control that you can't even keep your yelling under control, how can you trust yourself to hit your child without anger?

My children are the most precious thing I have. I worked very hard to make them. I spent nine months growing them. I've kissed and caressed and cared for them. How could I ever imagine physically hurting them???

amother

Orchid

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:57 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

The advice not to hit WAS from 40 years ago. I'm still waiting for the study that shows how this new advice has been helpful.

No, this is from Dr. Spock, 70-75 years ago. His core beliefs were: give effusive physical affection, cuddles, touch, and emotional warmth to children even as babies, don't hit, trust your instincts as a parent, and be flexible.

These ideas were a reaction to the Victorian sentiments which said, Limit hugs and physical affection to a minimum, even for babies; as well as verbal praise; keep an absolutely strict schedule; (ex. feed every four hours, ignore baby's screams if hungry before then), doctor knows best.

leah233

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:05 pm

amother wrote:

Are you saying that there have been no advances in understanding in the fields of psychology, neurology, child development, etc. etc. in the last 40 years?

Do you believe that there will be no advances in understanding in the fields of psychology, neurology, child development, etc. etc. in the next 40 years? Or that none of those advances will discredit anything believed by the experts today?

I don't.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:08 pm

Teomima wrote:

My children are the most precious thing I have. I worked very hard to make them. I spent nine months growing them. I've kissed and caressed and cared for them. How could I ever imagine physically hurting them???

This.

Even if hitting can be done in a way that is arguably not detrimental in the long term, I simply can't fathom intentionally hurting them like that, especially when there are alternatives.

tryinghard

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:11 pm

Teomima wrote:

I suppose, if you have trouble regulating your tone, and tend to yell often, you might feel there's no choice other than to hit occasionally. But if you struggle that much with impulse control that you can't even keep your yelling under control, how can you trust yourself to hit your child without anger?

I don't know what to tell you except to say that they are just different things. I wish I didn't yell at my kids as much as I do. It's something that I work on. A lot. But it's something I fail at. A lot. embarrassed

But in 8 years I have NEVER come close to hitting my child out of anger.

We potch for danger only. Touching a flame running into the street. Trying to kick over a baby seat containing an infant shock

. If the child is old enough we explain it first: "I have to give you a potch because you did XYZ and that is very dangerous". (And yes, we hug them and kiss them right after.) But it's very infrequent. And it's not something that happens by accident or out of anger. Neither of us have ever slipped up in this. Because it is extremely thought out.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:12 pm

leah233 wrote:

We make decisions based on the information that is available to us. As with all medicine, etc.

leah233

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:27 pm

amother wrote:

We make decisions based on the information that is available to us. As with all medicine, etc.

If results cannot be reproduced in a laboratory, as can be done in the case of other medicine, I make decisions based on what makes sense to me. Not the latest research.

I ignore the latest from the experts when my intuition tells me otherwise.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:32 pm

leah233 wrote:

Then you have been influenced by Spock, who introduced and advocated for exactly that view during a time when the prevailing view was that parents' intuition was meaningless.

leah233

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:35 pm

amother wrote:

Then you have been influenced by Spock, who introduced and advocated for exactly that view during a time when the prevailing view was that parents' intuition was meaningless.

I was unaware he advocated that until now so I couldn't possibly have been influenced by him.

Maybe that view was prevailing among the crowd more influence by the experts but I don't believe all parents ignored their intuition.

Last edited by leah233 on Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mommyg8

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:35 pm

amother wrote:

Then you have been influenced by Spock, who introduced and advocated for exactly that view during a time when the prevailing view was that parents' intuition was meaningless.

No, we are influenced by common sense, not Spock. (I read Spock's book, I know what he said). And we are influenced by our mesorah, which some of us feel is valid.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:44 pm

leah233 wrote:

Cultural norms influence our deepest beliefs, mindsets and values, whether we are consciously aware of this or not.

Spock's views were revolutionary at the time.

Mommyg8

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 4:49 pm

amother wrote:

Oh, so that's where the cultural revolution of the 60's and 70's came from Wink

. That worked really well, didn't it?

And who said the Victorian sentiments were followed by all parents? And anyway, just because the Victorian methods were semi-abusive, it does not follow that the opposite way of parenting is better. Just because one extreme is wrong, doesn't make the other extreme right, either.

sirel

Sun, Mar 04 2018, 5:26 pm

I feel like there might be a time when hitting a child is the appropriate response.

I can't tell you what it is, and Baruch Hashem in many years it hasn't come up in our home.

But I reserved the right to hit if I do ever come to a rational decision (NOT out of anger) that it is the right time and place.

Last edited by sirel on Mon, Aug 20 2018, 1:39 am; edited 1 time in total