To the mother who dressed her daughter as Vashti...

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim

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clowny

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 6:14 am

Op, I think you are over reacting. I don’t see why you should be offended by this.
You know those costumes that blows up? Making you dressed up like a fat person? Or simply stuffing up with pillows or something..? Well, I’ve seen quite a few this purim and since I’m overweight myself should I feel offended too?
Something to think about.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 9:35 am

This thread reminds me of the book "The sacrifice of Tamar" by N. Ragen. Kind of entertaining of how Hadassah wants to be Vashti.

little_mage

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 10:35 am

Teomima wrote:

Call me ignorant, but I had never heard of a correlation between Vashti and acne before. I've also never thought of her as a villain, rather as a poor victim who was tired of being a slave, constantly at her husband's beck and call. So as a child one year I did decide to dress up as the poor forgotten queen (though everyone probably just thought I was Esther anyways). It was of my own initiative and honestly, I doubt any 11-ish year old would let their parents choose. Kids at that age are independent and free-willed enough to decide what they want to be on their own.

If it makes any difference to OP, I also had major, severe acne throughout my teenage and young adult years.

THIS. I grew up reform, and I have a clear memory of one year choosing to dress up as Vashti because I wanted to be different and not Esther.

amother

Yellow

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 10:53 am

We learnt that vashti was immoral and would’ve gladly come naked to be shown off at the party in just her crown - except she prepared herself and then realized she had pimples and a tail so she refused to come.

cbsp

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 11:43 am

aleph wrote:

My experience is similar. Growing up in a modern orthodox day school environment we were taught that the king wanted Vashti to come to his party and dance for the guests and that she did not want to do that because it was not modest. I always saw vashti as a bit of a hero actually, albeit a victim who was punished by the bad king unfairly. Later on, I heard the parts about her not wanting to come because of her pimples, or a tail (?!), which was confusing to me because I had been taught that she didn't want to come because the king wanted to parade her around in front of his male guests. We learned that from very young, and it made perfect sense to us.

I'm so tempted to post anonymously because I'm embarrassed to say that I never really clarified any of this in my mind. I still have this divide between the impression I had as a child and this (to me) new stuff about pimples and tails. Was that added and why? Wasn't it enough to explain that Vashti did not want to come to the king's party to be presented immodestly to his guests?

Briefly :

No, it's not new or added, it's the medrash. Vashti was not a modest good individual. She was the granddaughter of Nevuchadnetzer, the one who destroyed our first Bais Hamikdash. She was the royalty, not Achashveirosh. She persecuted her Jewish maiden slaves.

If you look at what Achashveirosh wanted from his second wife you'll see he wanted an "anti-Vashti" - someone with no lineage, who wouldn't lay claim to his royalty.

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 12:41 pm

We drove through New Square on Purim because one of the grandchildren's morahs lives there. I saw a child dressed like Vashti with overdone pimples as well as some boys dressed as soldiers but with dark brown face make-up so that they were dressed as members of a dark skinned race. There was also a "Zionist" car driving through with a big Israeli flag and Jewish stars on the side of the car and I wasn't sure what the intention was of driving it through New Square.

Personally, I thought it was all cute but wondered how the non-Jewish police officers viewed it and there were loads of police and security all over Monsey on Purim, directing traffic and blocking roads.

Seas

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 12:50 pm

amother wrote:

It can be avoided by teaching what's actually in the megillah - that Vashti said no because she didn't want to come. Period.

Because we are not Karaites and we base our teaching and studying upon Chazal's understanding of pesukim.

They explain that Vashti was the one who urged Achashveirosh to forbid the rebuilding of the Beis Hamikdosh. She also enslaved Jewish maidens and forced them to work for her in the Shabbos - in their birthday suits.

Hence she was punished by being paraded in such a degrading fashion on Shabbos.

As to the OP, I never know what is parody and what is a real complaint that actually plagues someone.

amother

Pink

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 12:56 pm

Seas wrote:

She also enslaved Jewish maidens and forced them to work for her in the Shabbos - in their birthday suits.

Was this an autocorrect interpretation?

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 12:57 pm

amother wrote:

Was this an autocorrect interpretation?

I also learned that they were forced to work naked.

amother

Pink

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 1:00 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I also learned that they were forced to work naked.

Not birthday suits though! I guess it was meant to be bathing.

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 1:03 pm

amother wrote:

Not birthday suits though! I guess it was meant to be bathing.

The term "birthday suit" means the suit that you are born wearing.

Seas

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 1:07 pm

I used the euphemism "birthday suits" because my filter often blocks posts that contain explicit words. It means the "suit" of the day (and manner) you were born.

amother

Pink

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 1:09 pm

Seas wrote:

I used the euphemism "birthday suits" because my filter often blocks posts that contain explicit words. It means the "suit" of the day (and manner) you were born.

Oh lol. Never heard that expression before.

I wasn't trying to nitpick, just though it was a funny autocorrect!

Boca00

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 2:06 pm

amother wrote:

I heard of someone who met a non-jewish woman named Vashti. The lady told her that her father chose that name because Vashti was modest and refused to come show off her beauty before the men.
Interesting what the story sounds like with just pshat.

Moonlight

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 3:05 pm

Boca00 wrote:

My sister worked with a woman named Vashti. Her parents wanted a biblical name and liked it

amother

Maroon

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 3:06 pm

Seas wrote:

It is a real thing that always bothers me.

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