My highly gifted brilliant 17 yo ds says Gemara is boring

octopus

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 12:56 pm

Then you need to custom make your child's education to make it more bearable. You need to call up the rebbie, and the menahel , and tell them that your child is bored. What can we do about this? Perhaps instead of letting your child skip class, he can learn b'chavrusa with a kollel man or beis medrash boy during at least some of the duration of gemara time. Something has got to give somewhere. Switching your child to a different school isn't necessarily going to solve any problems.

fmt4

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 12:57 pm

I suggest you take what he says seriously. Maybe gemara is just not for him. He isn’t saying that it isn’t hard enough he’s saying that the content is boring. I don’t think it being harder will make it any less boring. Don’t send him to some other yeshiva so he can be even more bored. Let him finish high school and then go to college and study something that is interesting and challenging. Don’t force him to do something he has no interest in. You’ll regret it.

Last edited by fmt4 on Sun, Apr 22 2018, 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mommyg8

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 12:58 pm

Again, there are some yeshivos in the US that are on a very high level of learning, probably much higher than the level of the yeshiva your son is in now.

I would guess he would want a yeshiva with more lomdos and more b'eyun, probably NOT bekius which is going faster.

Look into the other yeshivos. Th ere are plenty of really brilliant Jewish boys- the reality, for better or for worse, is that yeshivos are segregated nowadays in the US. And smaller and OOT yeshivos have a lower level of learning.

amother

Peach

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:02 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Op here. He does say that it is not hard enough.

amother

Lavender

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:04 pm

Ds is in middle school and has the same issue. It's totally non relevant to his life nowadays and he finds it very boring. (His rebbe doesn't really integrate the gemarah into modern day life)
He is super bright, in advanced math & science classes but this is just dull to him.

amother

Peach

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:04 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Op here. This is what I don’t understand. Ds says that the brilliant guys just keep learning because they are very frum and interested in learning because it is what’s important. Not because it is interesting.

amother

Peach

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:08 pm

amother wrote:

Op here
But how much can you integrate it into everyday life. What can be inresting in an ox hitting something. I completely don’t understand and I think there must be something challenging and inspiring. I am a bt and heard so many inspiring stories and Gemara learning. It just doesn’t add up.

Mommyg8

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:09 pm

amother wrote:

Op here. This is why hat I don’t understand. Ds says that the brilliant guys just keep learning because they are very frum and interested in learning because it is what’s important. Not because it is interesting.

I have brilliant family members. One of the taught himself to read at four years old, read physics books and taught himself to code at eight. One of them was skipped, and won every contest, scholarship, etc. I haven't heard from them that learning is boring, but I can ask them if you want.

It would be boring for a super genius to learn in a classroom with regular kids, no matter what the subject.

ETA: I can't really post more now, but you can pm me for more info.

Last edited by Mommyg8 on Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Peach

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:10 pm

fmt4 wrote:

But do yoU think that if it was harder he would be less bored?

I think that at least he would not be bored out of his mind. Imagine sitting in Yeshiva a whole year and being bored. He doesn’t want to go to Yeshiva after high school.

amother

Peach

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:13 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I will pm you and please can you ask your family members. I am a bt and my family members are brilliant but all in Ivy League universities. I am really confused.

amother

Mauve

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:14 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

This is an example of the olden days. But rebbes in teaching bring the Gemara to life by bringing examples of today, with the same situation to make it more relatable and interesting. That's what I hear when my DH learns with the kids.

I could be mistaken, but I don't think what you're saying is accurate. For a more modern application of halacha, we have the mishna berura which delves into 21st century disputes. The cases that are in the gemara are being learned as is. I see and sign my 6th graders gemara tests. The questions are all in the realm of..... If Chaim wants to marry Leah and he gives her a pen that in his hometown worth 5 cents, but to Leah in her hometown is worthless, is it a good keddushin? These are obscure cases. They just are. Thankfully, none of my boys seem bothered by it.

Mommyg8

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:15 pm

amother wrote:

Sixth grade and high school are not the same thing. I would imagine many of the cases are applied to regular life once they get to a higher level.

amother

Mauve

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:19 pm

amother wrote:

Op here. He does say that it is not hard enough.

If the problem is that it's not hard enough then the solution is simple. Have the rebbe make it harder. There are so many mefarshim that the rebbe can have your son prepare that are very difficult. I thought the issue was that he was bored by the content. If it's just the level of difficulty, have the rebbe raise the bar. Believe it or not, as smart as your son might be, there are levels of learning that are challenging and even beyond him. Truth is a real masmid doesn't skip class because he already knows the gemara. Something is off here.

Mommyg8

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:28 pm

Op, I can't explain more now as in not able to use my computer now, but basically it's a matter of where you want to go, IMHO. If you want him to be a life long lover of learning, then try harder to find a better fit. If you are ok with switching him to university after high school and not really advancing in learning, that is a choice that you can make.

The higher level learning yeshivos that I know about are more RW. I don't know the choices in the MO world.

amother

Peach

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:38 pm

amother wrote:

Op here
He also says that it is boring

amother

Gray

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:39 pm

amother wrote:

Op here. I asked ds about that before. Ds told me there is not much depth to it. It is just translating and going over the arguments which are obvious

Dh said that in the b'iyun class they will get into understanding the rationale behind the arguments; just translating would be the bekiyus class

amother

Peach

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:42 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I am yeshivish. I want him to be learning full time and be a lover of learning. He was in a yeshivish Yeshiva. Right now he is 17 and I can’t force anything on him. I feel like the yeshivish world had a chance and first choice to interest him and I am really disappointed and frustrated that it didn’t happen. Right now I am trying to have him go to a Yeshiva after high school that maybe will make him change his mind about learning.

octopus

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:46 pm

amother wrote:

STOP. you don't think he will sense your disappointment? Just accept him for who he is and whatever disappointment you feel, make sure he doesn't feel it. Your job now is to get him through the rest of high school in one piece without skipping class. I'm just incredulous the rebbie lets him do this.

octopus

Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:48 pm

Just wanted to add: We all have to do things that we think are boring. That's part of life. You can't make him love learning, but he can acknowledge his responsibility right now is school, and he has to either attend rebbie class or attend an equivalent. No freebies.