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-> Interesting Discussions
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amother
Papaya
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 Fri, Jun 22 2018, 10:25 am
Just read the interview with the border patrol who was the one who checked the mother.
Said he apologized to the mother and the mother said the child is just tired and thirsty - it was 10 pm at night. The whole thing took 2 minutes and then she picked up her daughter and she stopped crying.
but obviously the entire thing is a human rights violation. Teh picture has also been used on a go fund me page to raise millions.
this women was also deported from the United States once before. Her husband claims to have a good job. He is upset his baby was taken from him and she left behind 3 children, one of them 6.
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33055
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 10:29 am
| amother wrote: | Just read the interview with the border patrol who was the one who checked the mother.
Said he apologized to the mother and the mother said the child is just tired and thirsty - it was 10 pm at night. The whole thing took 2 minutes and then she picked up her daughter and she stopped crying.
but obviously the entire thing is a human rights violation. Teh picture has also been used on a go fund me page to raise millions.
this women was also deported from the United States once before. Her husband claims to have a good job. He is upset his baby was taken from him and she left behind 3 children, one of them 6. |
This is what we want to import into our country?
80% of the asylum seekers are found not to have credible claims.
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southernbubby
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 11:52 am
| Squishy wrote: | Please post the studies backing up these opinions that they boost the US economy. They certainly boost their home economies with their monies they send home. Because they are illegal and most don't pay tax, it is hard to get anything more than estimates.
The estimates range from a cost of $99 Billion annually to $300 billion annually. |
This seemingly fair minded article talks about how it helps and hurts the economy:
https://www.investopedia.com/f......aspx
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Fox
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 12:12 pm
| Squishy wrote: | | Kudos for Breitbart for speaking with her husband. |
What I find so crazy is how many people consider Breitbart "tainted" in some way -- as if they're not a legitimate news source.
In fact, the accuracy of their reporting has been validated repeatedly -- including by the left-wing UK Guardian.
Breitbart covers stories that support a conservative agenda -- that's their whole point -- but they don't lie in their actual coverage.
That's very different from the MSM approach you see here, which is to (1) pretend to be completely objective; while (2) literally misstating the facts; and then (3) leaving the disproved information online indefinitely; (4) either never issuing a correction or doing so long, long after the story has dropped off the main page.
I started reading Breitbart years ago primarily because of the Israel coverage and because they covered the Orthodox community respectfully. For example, the situation in the UK with enforced curriculum on alternative lifestyles that a lot of Imamothers said they hadn't heard about has been covered consistently in Breitbart for months now -- I was surprised people hadn't heard about it.
When I started reading Breitbart, I was also reading Mother Jones, Huffington Post, and other liberal-leaning or progressive outlets. Sadly, virtually all of them have become primarily dedicated to essays on Trump-as-the-source-of-all-evil, doing less and less actual reporting.
So it's not surprising that Breitbart is the outlet that actually conducted interviews rather than simply throwing up emotional video. The 2016 election seems to have disrupted a lot of people's plans. #WeWeren'tSupposedToKnow
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chestnut
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 12:42 pm
| amother wrote: | Seems his biggest error was assuming that the mother and child were seeking asylum - when her husband claims they were perfectly safe in their home country - and she was being opportunistic.
Regardless - there is still hard evidence that parents were being separated from children at the border (or if you must - adult bringing in children). Even if this baby was not. |
What do you think this woman's goal was when she crossed the border if not applying for asylum or staying here illegally?
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amother
Mint
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 1:02 pm
| chestnut wrote: | | What do you think this woman's goal was when she crossed the border if not applying for asylum or staying here illegally? |
Good point.
He referred to people he saw 'asylum seekers', and he did seem to talk to them - so unclear if they told him that was their intent, or if he assumed it. (I guess I imagine some people try to sneak through the boarder, especially at night time, and attempt to avoid detection at all - no need for an asylum claim).
but yes - either asylum seeking, or staying illegally - those would be the options. The first is sympathy evoking (for most), the second is not (for most).
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amother
Apricot
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 1:33 pm
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Democrats and their fifth column, the media manufactured this so-called “crisis” with one purpose only - to use it as a political hot button in upcoming 2018 midterm elections. They hope to play on people’s emotions and to try to convince them that Trump is evil and by extension so are Republicans. But it looks like this idea is imploding in their face as more and more facts come out and people realized what really goes on at the border. Democrats are besides themselves because nothing they throw at Trump sticks.
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amother
Purple
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 1:40 pm
We of all people should know better than to make emotional assumptions based on a picture.
Some of these kids are showing up or crossing the border without family. There is no family locally to separate them from.
This illegal border crossing has to be stopped and checked to screen for criminals, terrorists, gangs and the like.
Theres much more security for an american or legal immigrant to get on an airplane.
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BasMelech120
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 1:43 pm
This photo can serve as a symbol for all the children who were separated from their parents.
At the same time, this gives even lower credibility to news sources who are already failing miserably in this area.
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amother
Purple
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 1:46 pm
So agenda driven -- for example if a woman or man did this left a domicile with a child and fled internationally or domestically he or she would be prosecuted for kidnapping and sued for divorce and custody. The child would be returned to the left behind parent and the parent who fled with the child would get supervised visitation at best.
Facts.
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amother
Mint
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 1:53 pm
| amother wrote: | So agenda driven -- for example if a woman or man did this left a domicile with a child and fled internationally or domestically he or she would be prosecuted for kidnapping and sued for divorce and custody. The child would be returned to the left behind parent and the parent who fled with the child would get supervised visitation at best.
Facts. |
Divorce is a civil matter.. it doesn't just happen. Neither do kidnapping charges if there are no suspicions and other parent doesn't file a complaint.
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SixOfWands
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 1:57 pm
Except, of course, that most media accurately reported that they didn't know what happened to the child after the image was taken.
NPR, for example:
| Quote: | "And I knew at that moment that this point in their journey, which was very emotional for me to see them being detained, for them was just part of a very, very long journey," says Moore, who has covered the U.S.-Mexico border for a decade.
After that, he says, the mother picked up her daughter. They got in a van and were taken away.
"I do not know what happened to them. I would very much like to know," he says. "Ever since I took those pictures, I think about that moment often. And it's emotional for me every time." |
Washington Post
| Quote: | | John Moore may have lost the midterm elections for the Republican Party and badly damaged the reelection prospects of President Trump. Moore is the Getty Images photographer who snapped a viral picture of a crying 2-year-old Honduran girl at the U.S.-Mexico border. It’s not clear whether the girl was separated from her mother, and, in fact, she had just been set on the ground so her mother could be searched. The details, though, are unimportant. The picture, in effect, was of Trump — his cruel policy, his cold heart, his lack of empathy. |
CNN
| Quote: | Moore didn't know what happened to the little girl and whether she was separated from her mother.
"The process of separation of families happens away from (camera) lenses," he said. "I was able to see about as close as one can get to what it really looks like." |
So I guess that the only "fake news" is that it was widely reported that the child was separated from her mother.
Nor does it change the fact that more than 2000 children have been separated from their parents.
But nice try.
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amother
Purple
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 2:13 pm
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I'm waiting for the retractions. Any minute now...
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southernbubby
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 2:13 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | Except, of course, that most media accurately reported that they didn't know what happened to the child after the image was taken.
NPR, for example:
| Quote: | "And I knew at that moment that this point in their journey, which was very emotional for me to see them being detained, for them was just part of a very, very long journey," says Moore, who has covered the U.S.-Mexico border for a decade.
After that, he says, the mother picked up her daughter. They got in a van and were taken away.
"I do not know what happened to them. I would very much like to know," he says. "Ever since I took those pictures, I think about that moment often. And it's emotional for me every time." |
Washington Post
| Quote: | | John Moore may have lost the midterm elections for the Republican Party and badly damaged the reelection prospects of President Trump. Moore is the Getty Images photographer who snapped a viral picture of a crying 2-year-old Honduran girl at the U.S.-Mexico border. It’s not clear whether the girl was separated from her mother, and, in fact, she had just been set on the ground so her mother could be searched. The details, though, are unimportant. The picture, in effect, was of Trump — his cruel policy, his cold heart, his lack of empathy. |
CNN
| Quote: | Moore didn't know what happened to the little girl and whether she was separated from her mother.
"The process of separation of families happens away from (camera) lenses," he said. "I was able to see about as close as one can get to what it really looks like." |
So I guess that the only "fake news" is that it was widely reported that the child was separated from her mother.
Nor does it change the fact that more than 2000 children have been separated from their parents.
But nice try. |
But one question that is valid is to ask exactly where the separation in each of the 2300 cases took place. In some cases, the parents are still in Central America and the children arrived with non-relatives and in other cases both parents and all of their children came together. So in the first example, the parents voluntarily separated from the children and in the second, they were forced to separate.
My dentist told me a story this morning while I couldn't respond. It seems that a 5 year old girl was forced to memorize a phone number and she knew it very well, even after several weeks in a care center. She finally got a worker to hear her recite this number and it turned out to be the number of an aunt living in the US and that was the child's ticket to freedom and a bigger possibility of being reunited with parents.
I wonder why more parents did not try to put dog tags or some other form of identification on children or force them to memorize a phone number. Reuniting all of these kids with their parents is going to be monumentally difficult, as has been already stated.
Now religious groups are putting their money where their mouth is:
https://www.jta.org/2018/06/21.....18344
Obviously the more people get involved, the better the outcome, at least you hope.
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Fox
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 2:21 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | | Except, of course, that most media accurately reported . . . |
That's just it. Nobody reported anything. Someone took a picture that was used as an illustration for opinion essays.
In fact, the quotes seem actually proud of their lack of reporting. The reporter felt emotional! We don't know what happened to the little girl! Lots of other families were separated!
To paraphrase Truman Capote, that's not journalism, that's typing.
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SixOfWands
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 2:30 pm
| Fox wrote: | That's just it. Nobody reported anything. Someone took a picture that was used as an illustration for opinion essays.
In fact, the quotes seem actually proud of their lack of reporting. The reporter felt emotional! We don't know what happened to the little girl! Lots of other families were separated!
To paraphrase Truman Capote, that's not journalism, that's typing. |
So, to summarize:
Over 2000 children have been separated from their parents or custodians at the border.
A photographer took a photo of a crying child at the border.
Media used the photo, but made clear in the accompanying articles that they don't know if the child was actually separated from her mother.
It turns out that she, unlike 2000 others, was not.
This demonstrates that the media lied, because they truthfully said that they didn't know if she was separated, but, well, its terrible that they actually said they didn't know, so its all fake news, and you can't trust them because they told the truth, but we don't really want to think that they told the truth and ... darn it, we just don't like them!
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SixOfWands
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 2:32 pm
| amother wrote: | | I'm waiting for the retractions. Any minute now... |
Don't wait for the people here who falsely claim that the media lied about the photo to admit it, notwithstanding my actual quotes from articles demonstrating that the status of the child was actually reported.
You don't seriously think that media that accurately reported should apologize, do you?
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flowerpower
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 2:34 pm
| Fox wrote: | What I find so crazy is how many people consider Breitbart "tainted" in some way -- as if they're not a legitimate news source.
In fact, the accuracy of their reporting has been validated repeatedly -- including by the left-wing UK Guardian.
Breitbart covers stories that support a conservative agenda -- that's their whole point -- but they don't lie in their actual coverage.
That's very different from the MSM approach you see here, which is to (1) pretend to be completely objective; while (2) literally misstating the facts; and then (3) leaving the disproved information online indefinitely; (4) either never issuing a correction or doing so long, long after the story has dropped off the main page.
I started reading Breitbart years ago primarily because of the Israel coverage and because they covered the Orthodox community respectfully. For example, the situation in the UK with enforced curriculum on alternative lifestyles that a lot of Imamothers said they hadn't heard about has been covered consistently in Breitbart for months now -- I was surprised people hadn't heard about it.
When I started reading Breitbart, I was also reading Mother Jones, Huffington Post, and other liberal-leaning or progressive outlets. Sadly, virtually all of them have become primarily dedicated to essays on Trump-as-the-source-of-all-evil, doing less and less actual reporting.
So it's not surprising that Breitbart is the outlet that actually conducted interviews rather than simply throwing up emotional video. The 2016 election seems to have disrupted a lot of people's plans. #WeWeren'tSupposedToKnow |
I forwarded the article to a very big liberal blogger. She said she doesn’t trust Breitbart. Of course not...they were speaking the truth....
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SixOfWands
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 2:58 pm
| flowerpower wrote: | | I forwarded the article to a very big liberal blogger. She said she doesn’t trust Breitbart. Of course not...they were speaking the truth.... |
Breitbart -- at present (remember, it changed significantly after Breitbart died) is a far right site with a strong bias.
Does it make up facts? Probably not. At least not most of the time. Although its had a couple of real whoppers. Eg, An undocumented immigrant "was arrested on suspicion of arson in (the) Wine Country fires that have killed at least 40 residents." Ummm. no. Or Loretta Lynch, the new nominee for attorney general, "was a member of Bill Clinton's defense team during the 1992 Whitewater corruption probe." Nope. It also has a bad habit of villainizing victims of violence.
Then again, no major media site just makes it up, and conservatives have no problem calling them "fake news."
But Breitbart is extremely slanted.
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southernbubby
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Fri, Jun 22 2018, 3:01 pm
Parents who are released from detention seem to be going to court to get their children released:
https://nypost.com/2018/06/22/.....nter/
I would have thought that release for the parent automatically meant release for the children but apparently not. Any explanations for this?
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