Strange segula going around

Jewishfoodie

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 12:10 am

People in desperate times will try anything for a quick fix or a yeshua. They aren't asking for money from you, and the cost of a candle is negligible. What's the worst that can happen, really? You said an extra kappital? You're cited shir Hashirim? A match gave its life?

It doesn't make people lose emunah when their wishes aren't fulfilled. Nobody today is stupid enough to believe that if they light a candle, leukemia will disappear.

One thing it does give a tortured soul is comfort. It's something harmless to do.

I don't advocate these things normally. They are mostly shtuss. But they are harmless shtuss. And what's wrong with a little harmless shtuss? If I had a dollar for every whatsapp lecture I got and erased b4 I opened it, I'd be on my yacht having people feed me fruit from a fresh coconut before my Bloomingdales splurge...

Ignore if it does nothing for you. But some people really do need it. Even if it is just a "magic feather" for them to hold.

Emotional

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 12:49 am

I think the problem becomes when people focus on the segula at the expense of things they should be doing in the first place (teshuva, etc.) Admittedly, during desperate times I have been guilty of this as well.
My father-in-law pointed out that some segulas have surfaced fairly recently that simply don't make sense. Such as sponsoring chai rotel, something about the drinks for the revelers in Meron on Lag Ba'omer(?). He says a greater zchus perhaps would be (for example) to take that money and give it to a struggling single mother so that she can pay for the tutor her son badly needs.

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 12:57 am

Jewishfoodie wrote:

I think you're underestimating how much faith people put into segulos. I don't see why someone wouldn't lose faith if something the believe in repeatedly failed them.

I don't think we can have it both ways. If you call it "shtuss" then masses of people shouldn't be doing it and legitimately putting faith in it.

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 1:02 am

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

I once heard that someone went to R' naftulche of bobovs kever a day after his wedding to daven for children. he poured out his heart, and what do u know?! he had a baby 10 months later.

a 12 year old boy heard the story and wanted a yeshua as well because he hadn't had his bar mitzva yet. he went to daven at the kever on lag baomer and he celebrated his bar mitzva within the year.
from then on it has become a segula to go to R' Naftulche's kever on lag baomer to be granted all that one wishes.

*joke*

This is distasteful and a mockery of the many Gdolim who when they were alive said anyone who comes to their Kvarim, will be helped. Are you saying they had no reason to say that and had no ability to promise that, because they have no more powers than you and I, once theyre not with us?

sra

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 1:17 am

Jewishfoodie wrote:

Saying shir hashirim and an extra kapitel tehillim is a zechus in it's own right! Hardly a 'magic feather'! Yes if ppl put hope in the segulah being a yeshuah and not the action, it is shtuss.
Ex-saying shir hashirim is is a beautiful thing with tons of zechus and tremendous power. If you have the kavana of the words, meanings e.t.c. it is a tremendous zechus not if you are saying it bec. 'my neighbor did it and her daughter got engaged so I will murmur it before I go to bed and hopefully my daughter will get engaged too'
the same is with lighting a candle for a tzaddik/ davening by a kever. Are you putting your faith in the candle or are you putting your faith in the tzaddik and the kedusha of his promises?

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 1:24 am

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

What exactly does it mean "anyone who comes to the kevarim will be helped". Surely the majority of people davening for yeshuos did not receive it. So how do we apply these words saying anyone will be helped?

pizza4

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 1:28 am

The segulahs are not a magic feather, no, more as a zechus and a prayer.
For example, I said nishmas for 40 days and the thing I was davening for happened. Was it magic?? No, it was a zechus, and a prayer.
That said, I ignore all the WhatsApp messages like those. I assume they are fake. And I tell people not to forward them just because; they are annoying. Like the ones that say if you pass this on to all your contacts then xyz... give me a break.

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 1:36 am

sra wrote:

Please be respectful when referring to gedolei yisrael! His name was R' Menachem Mendel M'riminov, a big gadol mainly in the chassidish world.
I will find out, but I'm pretty sure it is a reputable segulah with a mekor

He was a gadol, but the segula looks an awful lot like a novena to St. Jude.

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 1:40 am

pizza4 wrote:

The question is did saying nishmas for 40 days increase the likelihood of a successful outcome. Meaning at first hashem wasn't going to grant it, but then he saw you saying nishmas, so he decided to give it to you.

A good example would be shidduchim since so many singles, especially older singles, do some kind of segulah. The bottom line question is whether those that do segulah are getting married more than those that don't do segulahs? I think many single woman over 35 have tried every segulah in the book......yet they are still single. So you'd have to say it doesn't "always" work. Well does it work at all? Does it work some of the time? Most of the time? Is there any way to measure it's success?

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 1:46 am

sra wrote:

Thats the thing with segulot, there are no mekorot for segulot.
Most dont work for most people and those that they do "work" for, well, hashem already had whatever worked, in his plans to work.
I am so extremely skeptical of any segulot.
And a rav saying it will work is NOT a makor.

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 1:57 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

There are usually 2 arguments that people on the segulah side will make:

1. It says so. Are you saying it's not true?

2. My friend couldn't get pregnant and she did a certain segulah and she had triplets.

pizza4

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:06 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

The point isn't if it "works" or not. It's a way of praying. So yes I believe like prayer helps and brings the yeshua closer. Maybe what I was asking for, came faster, or easier, or with bonuses. I don't know.
Btw the full thing that I was praying for happened on day 43, I didn't give up and was going to continue until it came.
I can't answer on the segulah business with singles... but I'm sure everything they do try and every prayer helps them.
How about when people take upon themselves things like in shmiras halashon or tznius. They're all zechuyos.

amother

Green

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:09 am

What irks me is that I feel like people put more faith in a segula than in Hashem. If you say x amount of thillim then your wish becomes true. But you forget that you're saying this thillim as a prayer to Hashem. And He will hear your tfillos whether you say 2 kapitlech or 13. And of course outcome depends on Him anyways.

pizza4

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:15 am

amother [ Green ] wrote:

I agree

ora_43

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:38 am

Jewishfoodie wrote:

I don't advocate these things normally. They are mostly shtuss. But they are harmless shtuss.

They are based in a hashkafa that seems to see ratzon Hashem as a kind of divine vending machine. All we humans have to do is crack the code (do you say perek 25 of tehillim 13 times on the second night of the second week of Elul for healthy offspring, and "ashrei" five times while spinning counter-clockwise in front of a mirror at midnight for financial blessing, or was it the other way around?).

That's problematic. Even if it doesn't work. (Even more so if it does, and people start thinking they cracked the code and start telling others that all you have to do is ... and Hashem will give you .... . )

Aylat

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 5:11 am

amother [ Green ] wrote:

This is what is problematic. And is actually the root issue with idolatry (see Rambam Hilchot Yesodei HaTorah). We have a direct line to Hashem through tefilla, and specific instructions of what He wants us to do - the mitzvot and their halachot.

Basically what Ora said.

PinkFridge

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:02 am

The idea behind these segulos like Nishmas, Shir Hashirim, enhancing our performance of mitzvos is that either a)after the forty days we are left with the feeling that we are closer to Hashem, so if we don't get answered we not only haven't lost something, we've gained or b)if it's something like working on mitzvos, if we haven't been answered, we know we have extra zechuyos that are being banked somewhere and we are now on a different level as far as our performance of mitzvos and this is we are going forward, and all this effort is a statement of our belief in Hashem as the only Power Who can affect our yeshuos, and we're grateful for the new extra closeness.

Otherwise, one is setting herself up for disappointment, disillusionment, and cynicism.

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:06 am

PinkFridge wrote:

But why do these newfangled things when there are actual mitzvos out there? Instead of lighting candles, why not resolve to be careful with a particular mitzvah?

It's nice that you are trying to be melamed zchus, but no one ever advertised a segula as a way to get closer to Hashem. They are all about getting results.

amother

Firebrick

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:10 am

I recently heard a story where a women went to a rav for a bracha. He told her to say 4 specific kpitals for 30 days. After 30 days her request was fulfilled.
But she couldn’t read Hebrew. And there was no translation.
Every day she said “kappitel hey, kappitel Ches...”. It was the emunah that she had when saying it.
Segulas only help if we remember who brings salvation and this brings us closer to Him. Saying tehillim, davening - all of this does that.