Strange segula going around

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:37 am

Id like to hear everyone's respected Rebbes' Rabbonim's and Rebbetzins' opinion of Segulahs, (if they ever spoke of it publicly) to hear if they feel like most everyone here does. Are there any Shiurim or online articles where Rebbes Rabbonim and Rebbetzins gave their opinion on Segulahs?

PinkFridge

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:47 am

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

But why do these newfangled things when there are actual mitzvos out there? Instead of lighting candles, why not resolve to be careful with a particular mitzvah?

It's nice that you are trying to be melamed zchus, but no one ever advertised a segula as a way to get closer to Hashem. They are all about getting results.

I did want to defend certain endeavors that people will take on when in great need, whether machsom lfi, extra care in mitzvos, etc. But I have to agree with you. Totally.

amother

Babypink

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 9:02 am

I find that people hang on to segullas instead of facing themselves. It's much easier to say something for 40 days, than to face the fact that your child needs help. Lighting candles for 40 days is certainly easier than going to therapy....

Now, I'm chas veshullim not mocking these segullas. Some of them are reputable. I agree with pinkfridge about that (and many other things: your awesome!!). But, some people hang on to that instead of facing reality.

Jewishfoodie

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 9:17 am

I am being misunderstood. Perhaps I explained it wrong. The shtuss part is being told "do this and that will happen". Tefila has hundreds of forms. Any effort to speak to HaShem on any level is gathered lovingly in His arms and saved for when you need those prayers most, as opposed to when you THINK you need those zechuyos. Not one tefilah ever gets ignored by HaShem, however He may choose to use your tefilah. Even if you just sang to him, or spoke to him from your shower, when you need it most...

Example. You cry your eyes out to Hashem because you want your kid to get into Bnos Whatever because she doesn't have a school. HaShem, in his infinite wisdom actually knows that Bnos Whatever would actually be a terrible thing for your child for one reason or another. And he loves you. So He takes that beautiful tefilah that He cherishes so much and holds on to it for you. Because He knows that a week later, something is supposed to happen that would be traumatic to you and He used your school tefilah to prevent something else that you could not possibly have seen coming, or prevented.

So He helped you twice. Once when He DIDN'T allow you to go to Bnos Whatever, and again when He used your tefilah to avoid tragedy.

I know you may think this is hyperbole. It is not. This is not coming from me. This is coming from years and years of trying very hard to earn my Emunah and listening to what the Rabbanim and the Torah are actually teaching us about HaShem. These are not my words.

The shtuss still is, say this and that will happen. No. Say this. Go ahead. Say that. Everything you do for HaShem will not ever go unnoticed.

The only thing I'm calling a shtuss is connecting the action to the outcome. And people who prey on others and give false hope with stupid things.

Like say perek Shira and you won't have a squirrel problem anymore. Seriously?? Say perek Shira. But your squirrels need an exterminator.

Same with lice or bedbugs. You can say perek Shira all year. The lice and bedbugs are still going to need professional removal immediately.

And if you feel good saying perek Shira for this purpose, while it is a shtuss, by all means! What's the harm! When the exterminator leaves and you no longer have a problem, don't tell your friend to say perek Shira to get rid of bed bugs.

Am I making myself more clear? Those of you who know me know I would NEVER call saying shir Hashirim "stuss" and that's not what I was saying. But connecting it to a specific outcome (im saying it so my child shouldn't get the measles) is a shtus.

Say it! Say whatever you are capable of saying. And reap the rewards Hashem chooses to bestow upon you. Take comfort in knowing no tefilah goes into the ether abd disappears.

And I'm responding publicly to a PM I got last week about a woman who said not everyone can read Hebrew. She gave me permission to do so or I wouldn't.

Tefila from a women is not a simple thing. It's not only taking out a siddur and saying words fervently. Tefilah from a woman is described as such. Turn your heart and soul to HaShem and communicate in any way you can. Can you sing? Sing to him. Can you cry? Cry to him. Can you bake? Bake a cake for someone in need and tell HaShem, this is the only way I know how to pray to You. I made this cake with the love I feel for you and gave it to someone who needed it more than me. Praise HaShem. Tell Him how awesome He is to you or how hard life is. But praise Him. You will see results. I'm not HaShem so I can't pretend I know what results those are.

A siddur is a great way to daven but if you are saying nekudot wrong or you don't understand what you are saying at all, talk to Hashem in your own words, and your own way.

The only thing we should NEVER do is stop talking to HaShem. As women, it is our most powerful weapon.

I'm not sure I explained myself well but if I didnt, please call me out on it. I'm not a shrinking violet and opposition doesn't destroy me.

I didn't call shir Hashirim or any tefilah a shtuss. And I never would.

And now, I will go talk to HaShem. Because this is a big week for me and I need loads of s'yatah d'shmaya...

I wish Hashem grants everyone their hearts desire post haste.

amother

Indigo

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 9:50 am

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

I’m going anon for this because I quote this all the time. I’m not naming the rabbi either, but since you asked here’s a quote on segulahs:
“It’s a pity the aseres hadibros were not given as ten segulahs.”
In case it’s not obvious I’ll add he said it tongue in cheek.

pizza4

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 10:40 am

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

I've seen this, too. I know someone who did countless segulahs for her son to get married when he was mentally ill and needed meds. Obviously they didn't "work."
I suppose they gave her hope, though, eventually she had no choice but to take care of his problems.

pizza4

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 10:44 am

Jewishfoodie, I love every word of your post. Thank you for posting!

shoshanim999

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 1:55 pm

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

I find exactly the opposite. Meaning if someone is having trouble having a baby, they will do a segulah. If they get pregnant they will say, see the segulah works! They won't mention that they also went to a world renowned fertility specialist at the same time.....

tigerwife

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:49 pm

Davening at a kever is not a segula. You are simply asking the tzadik to “speak to Hashem on your behalf”.

I believe that anyone who takes on something as a zechus or a vehicle to get closer to Hashem will only see good from it. Obviously many segulos are nonsense, but please don’t discount them all as if you have zero influence on changing a decree from heaven.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:52 pm

Mevater wrote:

Whats so crazy about saying Thank You to Hashem? Is there more to this than you wrote?

Check out the #thankyouhashem social media and you’ll see what I mean. Instagram specifically

yehupitz

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:58 pm

For those asking if this is something real : yes there is a source. Doesn't seem to be from the arizal though (but how do you post an image here? Hope I'm doing it right)

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 3:16 pm

delete

imasoftov

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 3:50 pm

yehupitz wrote:

For those asking if this is something real : yes there is a source. Doesn't seem to be from the arizal though (but how do you post an image here? Hope I'm doing it right)

Well you posted the image so that it's visible, but perhaps you forgot to say where it's from?

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 3:52 pm

tigerwife wrote:

Are you saying if someone does something lsheim shamayim, they will only see good?
I believe this is a "feel good" statement that doesn't have any practical applications. Can someone c'vs have an accident on their way to do a chessed? Did a young talmud chachum recently drown to death while running to do a chessed and help save a child?

We love to try to think we understand how hashem works. If you or I got to play god for a day, that is exactly what we would do. That is that no harm will come to anyone trying to do good. Makes sense, right? Unfortunately we have no understanding of hashem or his cheshbon. The righteous suffer even as they attempt to do good. I'm sorry to burden you with reality.

amother

Apricot

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 4:26 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Nope. That's not what she's saying at all. So many people eloquently wrote again and again that the ways of Hashem are and remain mysterious forever. Yes, good people suffer at timed. Bad people thrive at times. This has literally nothing to do with the topic which is segulot that are real or not real.

Everyone here is simply trying to do their best and if a segulah is what will help them out emotionally, that's great.

Stop pointing out that bad things happen all the time. Every single Jewish woman knows this. No one is guaranteed money, health, wealth, happiness. No one. And no one is saying they understand Hashem. Because no one can. Your post reads very much like, "don't bother. Hell do what he wants anyway."

That's wrong. That's mean. That takes hope and extinguishes it. Just stop. We all know and suffer. We are just looking for proper ways to ease the suffering. Which is absolutely possible. Read a book. Learn Torah. Maybe you'll stop bringing everyone down with "stop pretending you know Hashems thoughts." no one is. Not one person said, Hashem told me....

Let people hold onto their faith and beliefs. If you personally are not there yet, work on getting there. But let people believe.

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 4:33 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

1. People don't do segulah's for emotional support. They do segulah's for results.

2. The poster I quoted specifically said that she believes no harm will come to those who do things to get closer to hashem.
I simply pointed out that this isn't true.

amother

Silver

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 4:37 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Sometimes the result is that the person feels better emotionally. Similar to the Baal shem tov's story of the watercarrier... dont knock emotional support.

amother

Apricot

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 5:45 pm

[quote="amother [ Royalblue ]"]1. People don't do segulah's for emotional support. They do segulah's for results.

2. The poster I quoted specifically said that she believes no harm will come to those who do things to get closer to hashem.
I simply pointed out that this isn't true.[/quote]

I guess Hashem told you this? That's how you know it's not true?

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 6:18 pm

[quote="amother [ Apricot ]"]

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

In a way, yes, hashem told me.
Hashem gave me a mind to think with, and common sense. We all just heard about the rebbe that drowned running into the water in an attempt to help someone. A few years ago there was a shabbos fire from a hot plate warming up a shabbos seudah. Several children died.
I'm genuinely confused by your premise. We can't debate that hashems ways and actions are completely mysterious and don't make sense to human logic. All types of tragedies befall good people all the time. We simply say, we don't understand. Is this one point a bigger question than anything else?meaning:
pogroms and the holocaust- it happened and we don't understand.
Children suffering from terrible illness- it happens and we don't understand.
Older singles can't find shidduchim- it happens and we don't understand.

But for a bad thing to happen to someone who was trying to get close to hashem, what???? That's were you draw the line that it is so unreasonable and so unfair, surely hashem wouldn't do this. For example a guy going to help another yid change a flat tire, surely will be protected and nothing bad will happen to him. All the other stuff I listed above we accept we don't understand, but this is were we draw the line.

Doesn't make sense to me.

PractclyPerfect

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 12:09 am

[quote="amother [ Apricot ]"]

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

As I understood it, she meant that saying these tefillos or doing things to become closer to Hashem will not be bad for her. Obviously, the outcome might not be what she expected, but the actual tefillos will not be bad for her.