Tattoos and Piercings now acceptable in some frum soceity?

ra_mom

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 12:21 pm

pesek zman wrote:

I'm surprised to hear that chassidish women have navel piercings. I'm MO and would never consider a body piercing. Live and learn

I honestly don't think chassidish women have body piercings. For some reason this woman does.

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 12:32 pm

ra_mom wrote:

I honestly don't think chassidish women have body piercings. For some reason this woman does.

There is no way to know who does or does not have naval piercings because its hidden all the time. No one has ever seen mine. Ever. And I don't wear clothing that is tight enough to show it.

amother

Ecru

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 12:34 pm

I am a frum open minded yeshivish lady who has multiple piercings. I have two piercings in each ear and I would love to get a nose stud but I don't think that the yeshivish schools I send my kids to would be ok with it. The rest of my piercings are on parts of my body that are covered. I take them out when I go to the mikvah and then put them right back in after I toivel. I have changed the jewelry in them a number of times so I can't say that I don't take them out ever.

amother

Blonde

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 12:37 pm

amother wrote:

I was getting my nails done the other day and there were two I guess modern orthodox women next to me. One had a wig on with short sleeves and a short skirt and the other had on a skirt with her own hair and a v-neck with short sleeves which is why I chose the words modern orthodox, but I have no idea if that is what they consider themselves. So the one with the shaitel on had 3-piercings in her ears but was otherwise dressed very classy looked and professional. The other women without a wig had one ear piercing and a nose ring - The one woman said to the other that she has always wanted a nose ring, but that it wouldn't fly with her work and asked the woman where she had it done to which she replied, the same place where I had my tattoo done. This woman's kid was wearing a kappel and her daughter was in a uniform from a frum school.

I'm so confused. I mean I'm chassidish so piercings are pretty much a no no although I have my belly button but no one can see that. I can imagine piercings being okay in other groups of Judaism, but I was thrown off by the tattoo. Sorry if I'm naive, but if you are MO or something else - is this acceptable now?

Maybe this woman did not know that it is forbidden for Jews to get Tattoos.

Sadie

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 12:53 pm

Maybe the woman isn’t actually religious. If her kids are dressed frum maybe she’s divorced and part of the agreement was to send the kids to religious schools. Maybe she’s a BT and got the tattoo a long time ago but still goes to the same place for piercings. Nose, eyebrow, and multiple ear piercings would be acceptable in my community. If a person in my community had a tattoo no one would grill them about it or shun them but it wouldn’t be considered halachically okay.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 1:15 pm

amother wrote:

A naval piercing is considered very 'cheap' in my world (dati leumi in Israel).
Nose rings are extremely common here among young adult dati leumi, from the left wing to the right wing who vigorously cover all their hair in huge mitpachot.
Multiple piercings in the ear are even more common. In my dd's very torani school multiple piercings are allowed whereas a nose ring is not (they all do it when they graduate).

Well, by definition, what's "considered cheap" in your world is wearing clothing that exposes the bellybutton piercing. Cause you wouldn't know it was there were it not for a belly revealing top.

amother

Babyblue

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 1:19 pm

amother wrote:

Well, by definition, what's "considered cheap" in your world is wearing clothing that exposes the bellybutton piercing. Cause you wouldn't know it was there were it not for a belly revealing top.

Very true. But I have a number of dds in their late teens to early twenties and they discuss EVERYTHING (Israeli teens, you know), from where they are doing laser to their periods. None of them has a navel piercing. But you're right, I wouldn't know if they'll get one done when they're thirty.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 1:24 pm

Modern Orthodox means someone that one doesn't cover their hair and wears pants. At least 10 years ago. Todays days mo has a different definition. I have seen people with two ear piercings. But not tatoos... MO people are not heimishe. So let's not get carried away...

amother

Babyblue

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 1:27 pm

simcha2 wrote:

I'm guessing they were just messing with you. Saw you were listening and decided to shock you

Are you replying to me? I don't think so, but in case you were - no one is messing with me. My dds are very very close with me and they share this stuff with me. It's not considered a secret or confidential among their friends, for example, what body parts they are lasering.

My dds would know for sure if a friend had a belly piercing done. And they see their friends in various stages of undress - they are always exchanging clothes, sleeping over and so one. In sherut leumi they definitely saw their roommates belly buttons....

chanchy123

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 1:30 pm

amother wrote:

I think she was referring to OP.

simba

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 1:36 pm

chanchy123 wrote:

I know a frum cosmetician who does these according to halachic guidelines. I don't know if it is the certain method she uses or that the (quite Orthodox) rav she asked for guidance paskens by another shita. So be DLKZ - they may have asked and gotten a different answer.

My mother looked into it for herself. The frum cosmetition told her she has a haskama from a specific Rav. This Rav was very reliable and my mother called him up to confirm. He said he never gave a hashkama and according to him it was not ok.
I think it was more a chatziza issue then tattoo as it is semi- permanent. I don't recall the details.

I don't know if this is the same one you are referring to yet I would still urge one to call the rov and confirm before moving forward.

chanchy123

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 2:03 pm

simba wrote:

I highly doubt it's the same rav, since the community I know of is in Israel. I happen to know that this rav has guided her on the halachot of chatzitza as well.

amother

Navy

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 2:29 pm

amother wrote:

Nope. And not ten years ago either. It's a worldview that sees our avodas Hashem enhanced by knowledge of, and appreciation for, the world around us. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

Cheiny

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 3:16 pm

amother wrote:

I never heard of an issur about multiple earring piercings, but tattoo is absolutely ossur. Assume she’s ignorant and didn’t know..,,

Ruchel

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 3:20 pm

Once upon a time, and not even sooo long ago, they weren't acceptable in non frum society. Or even non Jewish society. My PUBLIC SCHOOL had rules.
Nowadays? It's just a "to each their own", which I love when it's not linked to neglecting halacha.

Cheiny

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 3:21 pm

simba wrote:

That’s awful what that cosmetician is doing!! It should be publicized so other frum women don’t believe her and get it done,,,

Cheiny

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 3:22 pm

amother wrote:

I agree with the person you responded to...for as long as I can remember, decades, MO did mean different levels of basically not being strict with certain halachic requirements ie. Dress, and in other areas.

watergirl

Sun, Sep 02 2018, 3:32 pm

Cheiny wrote:

No, actually. Thats not what it means in any way. Its Torah U’Maddah, based on the teaching of R’ Shimshon Refoal Hirsch. Some people may decide to interpret halacha differently and use MO as their cover. But thats not the meaning of modern ortho anymore than “shpitzel, seams, double hair covering” is chassidish. Like in both, there is an actual platform, rhyme, reason, and hashkafa, as well as leaders, manhigim, and rabbonim. And fwiw, we can learn a lot from our MO friends. They are extremely strict in many areas where other groups are very lax.