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Forum
-> Yom Tov / Holidays
-> Succos
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amother
Puce
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 Thu, Sep 27 2018, 10:04 am
| amother wrote: | Op here. Ok, this thread was labeled a vent/rant which means that things will not be peaches and cream. This is meant for people to fairly vent about Something that’s been bothering them. It’s not fair to bash.
Please understand that we are in no way anti religion or sukkah bashing. Please. We’re just asking establishments to be considerate when making their sukkahs. Were not asking them to burn it or tear it down and neither are we reporting them! Instead, we turn to our sisters on imamother some of whom live in our neighborhood and we have a cleansing vent!
I'm noticing that we”re divided into two schools of thought and those of you who agree with me seem to be the ones who live in my neighborhood and have experienced what I’ve gone through on yom tov. Those of you in smaller communities appreciate every single sukkah, and that’s FINE! Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion based on their experiences. What were not entitled to is to get nastiness.
Btw, when we travel, we take along a pop up sukkah for the men. Problem solved. |
A pop up sukkah doesn't work for us.
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SimchaSays
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 10:10 am
| amother wrote: | Op here. Ok, this thread was labeled a vent/rant which means that things will not be peaches and cream. This is meant for people to fairly vent about Something that’s been bothering them. It’s not fair to bash.
Please understand that we are in no way anti religion or sukkah bashing. Please. We’re just asking establishments to be considerate when making their sukkahs. Were not asking them to burn it or tear it down and neither are we reporting them! Instead, we turn to our sisters on imamother some of whom live in our neighborhood and we have a cleansing vent!
I'm noticing that we”re divided into two schools of thought and those of you who agree with me seem to be the ones who live in my neighborhood and have experienced what I’ve gone through on yom tov. Those of you in smaller communities appreciate every single sukkah, and that’s FINE! Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion based on their experiences. What were not entitled to is to get nastiness.
Btw, when we travel, we take along a pop up sukkah for the men. Problem solved. |
In a smaller community and still agree ☺️
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amother
Gold
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 10:30 am
| amother wrote: | That doesn't help travelers. Anyway, it is not just me in my limited situation. It is every shul and business that needs a sukkah.
Hard to believe this is a frum site with the anti sukkah attitude. |
NOT anti sukka! Frustrated with inconsiderate people. There’s a tremendous difference. Please allow people to vent without bashing.
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amother
Puce
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 10:37 am
| amother wrote: | | NOT anti sukka! Frustrated with inconsiderate people. There’s a tremendous difference. Please allow people to vent without bashing. |
Please allow religious Jews who follow the law to practice their religion without bashing. We get enough from non jews.
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watergirl
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 10:39 am
| amother wrote: | | Please allow religious Jews who follow the law to practice their religion without bashing. We get enough from non jews. |
Religious Jews can practice halacha just fine. You are conflating this issue to something it isnt. I understand your vacation is more frustrating than you had hoped, I hope it improves.
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SixOfWands
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 10:57 am
| amother wrote: | We are hours from home, so takeout and eating in at our house are not an option. You can't jam a whole town and tourists comfortably in the rabbi's sukkah. That is creating other problems like residential parking and lack of bathroom access.
This whole thread is incredibly mean spirited and ugly. You are mean spirited not understanding that Jews want to travel with their families on yom tovim.
The hours of operation and lack of a choice are due to not being allowed a sukkah. There is no breakfast place open because the one breakfast place is not allowed a sukkah. Is that clear enough for you? I typed real slow, so you can understand why this is relevant.
Chol homoed is DH's only time to travel with the family. The kids are in school when he is off national holidays. Since he gets both Jewish and national holidays off already, he doesn't get extra vacation time. Many families are in the same predicament as us. We booked and paid for accommodations and didn't pack up food .
We found a lovely place that has 4 kosher restaurants. Can't you understand Jews wanting to enjoy it? Can't you understand the restaurants wanting and needing to be open during this time? |
So your need to go out and have a good time with your husband is more important than allowing people who are differently abled to get around. I mean sure, a disable person may not be able to get food to feed her kids. But its totally worth it if you and your husband can have a rockin' good time chol hamoed.
A restaurant's wish to construct its sukkah weeks in advance of the actual chag (before Rosh Hashana) is more important than the needs of the handicapped?
And let's not forget that when customers cannot get to the non-restaurant stores because of blocked sidewalks, those businesses lose customers. I'm not sure why only the restaurants are important in your opinion.
BTW, OP was referring to particularly congested areas of Brooklyn. I seriously doubt that those areas are the hot spots for chol hamoed trips. so takeout is a real option. As are smaller sukkahs, or shared sukkahs.
As are other creative solutions. I think I recall a Manhattan restaurant that had a sukkah on a flatbed parked in front.
I'm not anti-sukkah. I happen to love our sukkah. But there's a balance needed.
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octopus
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 10:58 am
[quote="DREAMING"]I get upset when a car blocks the sidewalk by parking in their "driveway". Try maneuvering the carriage and toddler on the gutter while cars are driving[/quote
100% illegal and that is a huge fine, but it is rarely enforced.
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amother
Gold
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 11:01 am
[ I think I recall a Manhattan restaurant that had a sukkah on a flatbed parked in front.
I'm not anti-sukkah. I happen to love our sukkah. But there's a balance needed.[/quote]
That’s a great idea actually, tho not handicap accessible.
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octopus
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 11:01 am
| amother wrote: | | There is a pizza store on 18 avenue that builds their Sukkah before Rosh Hashonah every single year. It's totally unacceptable. There is no reason that they can't build the Sukkah on Chol Hamoed or erev Sukkos. |
I know exactly which pizza store we are talking about and I don't even live in bp. The way they build it is all the way out and just like the op described, it's right by a bus stop. And it's not just a regular bus stop, either. It's very busy over there, and the store has created a dangerous situation for pedestrians.
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amother
Puce
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 11:39 am
| SixOfWands wrote: | So your need to go out and have a good time with your husband is more important than allowing people who are differently abled to get around. I mean sure, a disable person may not be able to get food to feed her kids. But its totally worth it if you and your husband can have a rockin' good time chol hamoed.
A restaurant's wish to construct its sukkah weeks in advance of the actual chag (before Rosh Hashana) is more important than the needs of the handicapped?
And let's not forget that when customers cannot get to the non-restaurant stores because of blocked sidewalks, those businesses lose customers. I'm not sure why only the restaurants are important in your opinion.
BTW, OP was referring to particularly congested areas of Brooklyn. I seriously doubt that those areas are the hot spots for chol hamoed trips. so takeout is a real option. As are smaller sukkahs, or shared sukkahs.
As are other creative solutions. I think I recall a Manhattan restaurant that had a sukkah on a flatbed parked in front.
I'm not anti-sukkah. I happen to love our sukkah. But there's a balance needed. |
No one can construct a sukkah in front of someone else's business without permission. They lay out a path in the street for traffic. No idea what you are talking about with the lose of business. What drama that disabled people can't get food for their children because of the frum people celebrating their yontiff. You are really reaching.
Shuls need sukkahs. Restaurants need sukkahs. . So glad the anti-sukkah contingent is powerless to limit what shuls and businesses can do.
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pause
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 11:40 am
A few observations posted under my screen name:
1) OP is chassidish and probably lives in Williamsburg but possibly also BP. | Quote: | | I’ve seen sukkahs with official “walkways” on the gutter that they forgot to set up before yom tov. | Gutters are things that hang off the sides of the roof of a house. 
2) Puce amother is definitely the amother Blue from Was this the right thing to do? thread. Unable to hear another point of view.
3) People don't must eat pizza on sukkos. They definitely don't must eat it in the store's sukkah. In a crowded congested city, like the one OP is describing, there are plenty of other sukka options for eating. No one is converging on one rabbi's sukka.
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amother
Puce
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 11:43 am
| pause wrote: | A few observations posted under my screen name:
1) OP is chassidish and probably lives in Williamsburg but possibly also BP. | Quote: | | I’ve seen sukkahs with official “walkways” on the gutter that they forgot to set up before yom tov. | Gutters are things that hang off the sides of the roof of a house.
2) Puce amother is definitely the amother Blue from Was this the right thing to do? thread. Unable to hear another point of view.
3) People don't must eat pizza on sukkos. They definitely don't must eat it in the store's sukkah. In a crowded congested city, like the one OP is describing, there are plenty of other sukka options for eating. No one is converging on one rabbi's sukka. |
If you bench for pizza, then you must eat it in a sukkah if you are a man.
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pause
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 11:48 am
| amother wrote: | | If you bench for pizza, then you must eat it in a sukkah if you are a man. |
I am not responding to your post because your post is not relevant to any point I mentioned in my post.
I also don't want to get sucked in to your martyrdom, entitlement and argumentative circular posts.
Have a wonderful rest of YT!
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InnerMe
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 12:04 pm
| pause wrote: | A few observations posted under my screen name:
1) OP is chassidish and probably lives in Williamsburg but possibly also BP. | Quote: | | I’ve seen sukkahs with official “walkways” on the gutter that they forgot to set up before yom tov. | Gutters are things that hang off the sides of the roof of a house.
2) Puce amother is definitely the amother Blue from Was this the right thing to do? thread. Unable to hear another point of view.
3) People don't must eat pizza on sukkos. They definitely don't must eat it in the store's sukkah. In a crowded congested city, like the one OP is describing, there are plenty of other sukka options for eating. No one is converging on one rabbi's sukka. |
About your second point I seem to recognize her from several threads including one that she started.
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groovy1224
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 12:04 pm
| amother wrote: | No one can construct a sukkah in front of someone else's business without permission. They lay out a path in the street for traffic. No idea what you are talking about with the lose of business. What drama that disabled people can't get food for their children because of the frum people celebrating their yontiff. You are really reaching.
Shuls need sukkahs. Restaurants need sukkahs. . So glad the anti-sukkah contingent is powerless to limit what shuls and businesses can do. |
Why can't you acknowledge the hardships of the elderly, the infirm, or people pushing strollers or wheelchairs? Imagine walking down the sidewalk, realizing you can't pass, but can't go in the street because of parked cars or because you can't make it down the curb and then being forced to double back or potentially put yourself/your young children in a dangerous situation (stepping out into a busy street or bus stop). It can be very distressing. Imagine your elderly mother/grandparent pushing a walker in that situation. Yourself nine months pregnant holding groceries or pushing a stroller. These are all very real and not at all made up, overly dramatic scenarios.
And all this could be solved if the establishment would just make a sukkah that's 2-3 feet smaller! No one here is anti-sukkah. That's like saying someone's anti-car if they frown upon drunk driving. I am so grateful to live somewhere where we can celebrate openly, and where families can enjoy eating out on the chag. But being considerate to our fellow Jews is just as much a mitzvah, and should not be thrown away in the name of "how dare you stamp on my mitzvah??"
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Iymnok
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 12:19 pm
I still don’t get why these restaurants need sukkas. They could join together for a sukka that they share that does not inconvenience people or create real hazards. Or they could have take out only. Or free delivery to a Shul, or other semi-public sukka that doesn’t create dangerous congestion a couple blocks away.
There are many options.
There is never an obligation to eat out. These poor men who must eat pizza on those two days should just take it to a safe sukka.
Wanting a safe way to get from point A to point B does not equal being anti-sukka or anti-mitzvos.
Actually, a sukkah built as described may be a bor b'reshus harabim. Thus assur, maybe passul. Ask a rav before eating there.
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SimchaSays
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 12:22 pm
| groovy1224 wrote: | Why can't you acknowledge the hardships of the elderly, the infirm, or people pushing strollers or wheelchairs? Imagine walking down the sidewalk, realizing you can't pass, but can't go in the street because of parked cars or because you can't make it down the curb and then being forced to double back or potentially put yourself/your young children in a dangerous situation (stepping out into a busy street or bus stop). It can be very distressing. Imagine your elderly mother/grandparent pushing a walker in that situation. Yourself nine months pregnant holding groceries or pushing a stroller. These are all very real and not at all made up, overly dramatic scenarios.
And all this could be solved if the establishment would just make a sukkah that's 2-3 feet smaller! No one here is anti-sukkah. That's like saying someone's anti-car if they frown upon drunk driving. I am so grateful to live somewhere where we can celebrate openly, and where families can enjoy eating out on the chag. But being considerate to our fellow Jews is just as much a mitzvah, and should not be thrown away in the name of "how dare you stamp on my mitzvah??" |
Seems like a won't acknowledge, not a can't.
Starting to think troll...
I like the analogy of the car
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etky
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 12:35 pm
| Iymnok wrote: | I still don’t get why these restaurants need sukkas. They could join together for a sukka that they share that does not inconvenience people or create real hazards. Or they could have take out only. Or free delivery to a Shul, or other semi-public sukka that doesn’t create dangerous congestion a couple blocks away.
There are many options.
There is never an obligation to eat out. These poor men who must eat pizza on those two days should just take it to a safe sukka.
Wanting a safe way to get from point A to point B does not equal being anti-sukka or anti-mitzvos.
Actually, a sukkah built as described may be a bor b'reshus harabim. Thus assur, maybe passul. Ask a rav before eating there. |
It may be equally passul to make ones' parnassa by endangering others.
In fact, I hope it is.
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amother
Olive
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 12:58 pm
| pause wrote: | A few observations posted under my screen name:
1) OP is chassidish and probably lives in Williamsburg but possibly also BP. | Quote: | | I’ve seen sukkahs with official “walkways” on the gutter that they forgot to set up before yom tov. | Gutters are things that hang off the sides of the roof of a house.
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https://www.collinsdictionary......utter
another meaning...
The gutter is the edge of a road next to the pavement, where rain water collects and flows away.
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Ruchel
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Thu, Sep 27 2018, 1:22 pm
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Yes, it's also hard when there is construction, or anything else. It's not about Jews
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