BE A MENTSCH!! A rant/vent

imasoftov

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 3:48 am

amother wrote:

In BP, the word gutter is used instead of street, which is the way you used it.

And I had a teacher in high school who would use "the street" to refer to the decadent world outside, which I always found odd, as to me the street was totally pareve, my apartment building was located on one, the school was located on a different one, and a number of other streets were involved in getting me between one to the other, there were some streets that it was best to avoid but as a rule they were OK, just look both ways before crossing.

EishesYo

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 4:12 am

I understands OPs frustration
We are in yerushalayim for sukkos
Getting around is fun!
My husband and I take turns manuvering and we make note to appreciate how AWESOME the scene is! The full streets,sukkas everywhere,music blasting at crazy hours etc. we chose to look at this way so that we dont go ‘cookoo’. And yes sometimes we need to be reminded to be positive!! Smile

Also, point to ponder... its not a halacha to ‘go away’ on chol hamoed... I was not brough up this way but I find it amazing how the real Israeli families stay home enjoying each others company (we hope) going on outings in chol hanoed seems to be not on their radar!

oliveoil

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 9:36 am

amother wrote:

Gutter is commonly used in English instead of the word street?

Please provide examples.

It's not instead of the word street, it is PART of the street. When you step off the sidewalk, you step into the gutter. If you walk further into the street, you will leave the gutter and be in the street proper.

Give examples? I don't even know where to start. It's just part of using language correctly.

oliveoil

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 9:39 am

amother wrote:

It means he lay on the side of the street, in a lower area, such as a ditch. Not that he lay in the street proper.

No, it doesn't. It means he lay in the actual gutter. Ie. Rolled off the sidewalk into the gutter because of his drunkenness.

amother

Gold

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 9:40 am

oliveoil wrote:

Which is what I meant!! And I was specifically thinking of people building out until the corner, in which case you’re forced into the sewer which would be part of the gutter.

moonstone

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 10:21 am

In olden days, people would throw their garbage and the contents of their chamber pots into the street-- so the gutter was filthy, literally an open sewer. I assume that's where the expression "get your mind out of the gutter" comes from.

amother

Ecru

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 10:45 am

oliveoil wrote:

Duh. That is exactly what I said. Clearly you misread my posts. Reread them.

oliveoil

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 10:56 am

amother wrote:

Duh. That is exactly what I said. Clearly you misread my posts. Reread them.

I did re-read your posts multiple times. It seems you are trying to discreet the op based on her use of the word gutter in a way that you feel is incorrect.

If I misunderstood, please do clarify.

amother

Ecru

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 11:18 am

oliveoil wrote:

I did re-read your posts multiple times. It seems you are trying to discreet the op based on her use of the word gutter in a way that you feel is incorrect.

If I misunderstood, please do clarify.

Here goes: Another poster said using the word gutter in this context is "chassidish" as it really means something on a roof, it is not another word for street. Yet another poster said there is also a street gutter which the op said was what she meant. But the word gutter and the word street are NOT interchangeable which is what I pointed out. For some reason (and I'm chassidish myself and used it this way as a kid) chassidish ppl today use the word gutter in place of street. They'll tell a child "Hold my hand when we're on the gutter.")

If you grew up chassidish as I did you'd know that for some strange reason there are certain words used in certain ways. For example: I've only heard chassidish ppl call a robe a "duster" these days though the origin is not "chassidish."

anon for this

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 11:46 am

amother wrote:

For example: I've only heard chassidish ppl call a robe a "duster" these days though the origin is not "chassidish."

I think your meter is off. My mom uses the term "duster" and she definitely did not "grow up chassidish". She barely even knows yiddish.

anon for this

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 1:48 pm

amother wrote:

Exactly.
Your mom, yes. You? Do YOU call a robe a duster today?

Sometimes, yes, probably because that's what she called it. And I am not chassidish either. My point is that while sometimes speech patterns can give you a clue about where someone is from or their cultural group, it's not definitive proof. Especially when that person contradicts your assumptions.

seeker

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 2:04 pm

If it's a heavily populated area and it's so important for business, then the businesses on the same block or two should get together and jointly build a large sukkah, preferably in a parking lot or something, and patrons who need a sukkah can take it "to go." Maybe they could even team up with a local shul whose sukkah isn't as busy on chol hamoed. Wouldn't eliminate the traffic issues but would reduce it.

Ihatepotatoes

Fri, Sep 28 2018, 4:07 pm

I agree with the OP . I had to push a double stroller down the middle of the street on Sukkos because a sukka belonging to a shul on 53rd and New Utrecht built it not only to the curb but halfway into the street. y husband asked the guy from the shul why he did it and was told "we have a permit" and " when the non jews block streets for carnivals it doesn't bother you". those are both bad excuses.
a) I don't care about legal or not, you're supposed to think of other Jews... I get you have a "Es kimt mich" attitude but you'll just have to make do with a smaller sukka, I'm sorry. The damage done to others in regards to traffic, danger to pedestrians, and noise because everyone is honking is worth more than you being able to fit more coffee drinkers into your sukka. Plus I'm not sure how ambulances could make the turn from NU onto 53rd street without really slowing down, would the gabbai of the shul be happy if his mother didn't make it on time to the hospital because the ambulance went too slow?
b) when the non jews make carnivals, I gripe too. It makes problems for traffic as well. What it doesn't have is cars going down the street, because the streets are blocked off for pedestrians to use.I also thought that maybe , just maybe, we're supposed to be better..... Is that too much to ask? rant over

amother

Gold

Sat, Sep 29 2018, 8:05 pm

chayalas wrote:

And when there’s a carnival, Jewish or not, it takes 12 hours max.

happyone

Sat, Sep 29 2018, 10:36 pm

Wow... just wow. Our grandparents are probably rolling in their graves (both European , any immigrants from other countries, and those raised in the US) at the attitude of "sukkah inconvenience " in a heavily Jewish populated area. Whether it's a double stroller, or a wheelchair/assistive device most can get around with a few foot detour. Just sitting here scratching my head...