What's considered flirting with male workers?

thunderstorm

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 3:34 pm

little neshamala wrote:

My (right wing Yeshivish) Rav told us not to go by the book 9-5 because "its not how we poskin".
Just make sure your Rav goes according to what he writes before taking it as halacha

Interesting. I just read the book out of curiosity. I can't say I followed the halachos from this book really. (I'm just not on that level) But it helped me gain an understanding to where the Chasidish coworkers hysterics were coming from.

little neshamala

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 3:45 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

Not ch"v putting the book down, or the author. Hes a big talmid chacham.
Just saying, not everyone holds like he does, and its worth asking a Rav

amother

Gray

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 4:08 pm

Make.sure she does not make boss fire YOU because of this.... coworker is saying its wrong and you want to know policy.... but I didnt read all. Is she warning you or just telling you....ask others at work what her complaints mean. That one day you will be in trouble? ....please feel free everyone to coment on this

Alternative

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 5:29 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

Your teacher taught you wrong. I'm looking at the book in front of me, and under "Conversation" the first pointer says " A) It is permitted for a man to greet his female employees or co worker

Interesting that the book doesn't even dream of the possibility of a man needing to greet his female EMPLOYER.

naturalmom5

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 5:41 pm

little neshamala wrote:

Ugh. Im very familiar with this kind of behavior...in my experience some chassidish/very yeshivish women who have had very little day to day interactions with men who are not family tend to get overexcited and have their antennae tuned in to wavelengths that dont even exist. I have witnessed so many conversations where women have repeated the blandest conversations with men as though they had a whole juicier meaning, and often turned a tiny dumb comment into the funniest thing of the century...

I always wondered though if the reason they put the man in question down as "inappropriate/flirty" was to make themselves feel better about themselves for even getting a little excited about the conversation.

Like "oh, im not blushing or interested in the conversation at all, im just repeating it and geting worked up because like, how dare he chat with us and makae a joke, thats just so inappropriate, ha ha let me tell Raizy what just happened"

From this lovely forum and my many work experiences over the years, Chas/Yeshivish women have a co-ach of turning drinking a cup of coffee into the most banal sordid thing.

naturalmom5

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 5:48 pm

Maya wrote:

I also learned that book at school. The same teacher also insisted that it’s 100% assur to greet and say hello to a male UPS delivery guy when he brings packages to the office.

So I wouldn’t exactly say that the teachings in this book are within any scope of normal. They are radical and ridiculous, and only aim to serve a population that is so repressed that any word spoken to a woman by a man automatically means he wants to jump her.

FWIW... When the sefer first came out, my husband showed it to a big Talmid chochom who had smicha from Reb Moshe and learned by him for 18 years.

From a cursory reading he pointed out over 12 glaring mistakes. Many sources are misquoted.

If a sefer on kashrus was written the same way I would be afraid to rely on it.

Carry on, ladies Surprised

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 6:14 pm

Ok here again
Thanks for all your insights, I've always heard about the book 9-5 and thought I should read. I do think I could do with learning the laws of dealing with men.
Let me ask u and I hope non of my workers r on this forum embarrassed

This man asked if I was signing a contract for coming year and if yes would I take longer hours. I answered I wouldn't want to commit as anything could happen this year being my youngest is old enough. Then I added there's nothing at moment doing but could do in near future.
I did it from a professional point of view which I can't explain here. There was a reason why he needed to know. My friend BLEW IT and said she'd tell my husband what I just said,
Now, if he would be a dirty guy I probably woudlnt tell him this info but being that he seems more factual that romantic I allowed myself,
Was I crazy?

thunderstorm

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 6:29 pm

amother wrote:

You may have crossed a boundary. There is a way to express a point without saying it. You could have just said, you don't know what plans HaShem has for you so you are not sure if you want to commit. Mentioning that your little one is old enough so something could happen, is sharing a bit much IMO.
I had to express a similar thing when I was at my job interview. My youngest was six but there was no guarantee that I wasn't going to get pregnant. I didn't say that of course. I just said, I could make plans but HaShem is the one with the master plan and there are no guarantees that my situation won't change.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 6:37 pm

amother wrote:

Your “friend” sounds like an idiot. I really do not get all these “flirting” threads. Why is everything about s-x? Why can’t people just act normal!!! If your friend saw me interacting with men she would probably call me a prostitue.

thunderstorm

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 6:45 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Lol! I can totally picture you now!!!

zaq

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 6:49 pm

OMG OP you mean you basically told your coworker “I can’t tell you for sure because I stopped nursing and though I’m not pregnant right now I could get pregnant any time in the near future”???? No you didn’t use those words but that’s what you told him loud and clear.

Girl, you need a good smack upside the head.
First of all, your family planning or lack thereof is none of his business. Even were he your boss —and I’m starting to suspect that he is—that would be none of his business ( and illegal for him to ask.)

Second, this is REALLY REALLY REALLY an inappropriate topic to be discussing with a male who is not your dh or physician. And FTR I am not charedi, work in a mixed-gender secular office, and have no problem conversing with male coworkers.

Although 9 to 5 is a bit extreme, I think you ought to read it, or something like it that is a bit more moderate. You either don’t have a good handle on what is and is not appropriate in mixed company in general, or you are so chummy with this man that you forget he’s not your dh or your girlfriend. Either way, you need guidance.

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 7:01 pm

zaq wrote:

I guess for this reason imamother is great. I'm embarissed that I even said this. I had ulterior motives behind this comment which was about my job. He's not my boss. Not gonna elaborate cos afraid ppl will get me.
I'm just a friendly woman and usually reflects the person that speaks to me. I'll try from tommorw iyH to tone down. Not sure how thou....

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 7:05 pm

little neshamala wrote:

I cant wrap my head around the fact that your coworker said she would tell your husband what you just said. What in the world....are we in 5th grade?

She said it because I always reassure her that dh knows exactly how I interact and doesn't think I'm wrong, so when she heard this comment she said I'll tell your husband and see what he says to this comment. Let's see how ok he'll be about this.

thunderstorm

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 7:18 pm

amother wrote:

Even so, this is really not your friends business . She is breaching her boundaries as well by getting so involved. This has nothing to do with your husband , by the way. It has to do with yourself. You need to develope a sensitivity. It doesn't happen over night . It takes awareness and some practice. Don't feel awful or think badly about yourself. I'm a super friendly talkative person and I have to keep myself in check as well.

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Oct 07 2018, 7:20 pm

I just read about the father of 11 that was nifter. I'm crying. I feel bad that I even bought up this topic!!!
I guess this is a woman. And an hormonal one too! If a man would read this they'd cackle. Suddenly my brain is sad and feeling terribly guilty for normalising my work situation.