Can I sign wrong? | Imamother

salt

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 8:21 am

Gut wrote:

School wants parents to sign a letter that you don't use youtube ect at home. Can I lie? I don't want to stop using youtube!!

I think if you're way of life is basically in line with the general ethos of the school, you can sign, even if you waiver on certain parts of the school rules.

Is this a letter just referring to what you use internet for?
Or is it a list of rules, dress codes, permitted places of entertainment, permitted books to read, permitted forms of technology to use?
Do you use you-tube for your kids, or for yourself?
Do most of the kids in your child's school use you-tube too?
Would you mind if your child told his teacher that he saw a great clip on youtube?
Would he get into trouble/kicked out, or would the teacher turn a blind eye cos she watches youtube too?

Basically, if your haskafa is more or less in line with the school, I wouldn't worry if you don't keep all the rules to the very last word.

zaq

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 8:47 am

You didn’t really just ask a forum of FRUM women if it’s ok to lie, did you? Because that’s what you really asked. You used the word CAN but that’s not what you meant.

CAN you lie? Of course. Very few people over the age of two or so are incapable of lying. You can also eat tref, work on Shabbos, cheat on your taxes and run red lights in your car.

But if you want your children to be honest law abiding citizens and frum Jews, you won’t do it. What kind of message do you think lying is going to send to your children? And for such a thing! Not because abiding by school rules will leave you without parnassah, threaten your health, or tear your family apart, but because you are unwilling to give up your favorite form of entertainment.

What will you tell your children when in a recess time discussion they mention that you saw something on YouTube and their friends tell them YouTube is against the school rules? Or, worse, they say this in class and the teacher tells them? Will you say “Yes we lied but it’s ok to lie if you disagree with the policy”? Why should your future- teenage daughter not lie to you about attending a party at which there were boys and underage drinking, since she disagrees with your policy forbidding this sort of activity?

If you refuse to give up your YouTube, maybe this schoolIsn’t for you. Find a school that won’t tempt you to lie.

ectomorph

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:09 am

I was told by a very famous rabbi not to lie. As a result I was rejected by 3/4 high schools I applied to and 4/5 seminaries.

Hashem helped me and bh things worked out beautifully for me in my life and I ended up with a much better education than if I had been accepted.

watergirl

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:23 am

Gut wrote:

School wants parents to sign a letter that you don't use youtube ect at home. Can I lie? I don't want to stop using youtube!!

Is this a school for next year? Or is this a letter your current school sprang on you? If its for next year, I’d chose a different school over lying and being scared that your kids will out you which could result in expulsion. If its your current school with a letter out of the blue, ignore. This happened to me one year - we had to sign a letter a few months into the year and we ignored - then sent to a different school the following year. I will not lie on a school form.

watergirl

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:24 am

imasoftov wrote:

I'm still confused by the title. She's asking about scribbling something that isn't her signature? Or sign even though she doesn't mean it?

I’m thinking its a language issue, something not translating correctly. Seeing as its OP’s first and only post, hard to tell.

SixOfWands

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:26 am

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But there's no perfect school, and what if this is as close as it gets.

The whole thing is, IMNSHO, absurd. Everyone should recognize that there's a difference between mom and dad watching the news, or the kids watching something historic or educational on youtube (like the moon landing), and spending endless hours watching bad sitcoms. And that there are all kinds of gradations in between.

Maybe OP can work from within. What does this mean? Do you mean that I can't watch a how to knitting video? Cooking? A video showing holy sites in Israel? Exercise video? If my kid is home sick, can I put on Sesame Street for a few minutes so that I can use the bathroom? Try to get them to realize that its not all or nothing, see what they say, see what they really mean.

PinkFridge

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:44 am

Iymnok wrote:

Can you change the title? I thought this was about tone deafness.

And I thought it was about ASL Very Happy

ETA: I just realized that the original thread title was spelled the other way.

Second ETA: OP, I wish you well. I'm glad I was never in this situation. I realize it's easy for me to say, find another school, but not pashut l'maaseh. I still don't think I could bring myself to lie on something this big, and hope I wouldn't lie on something smaller.

You can ignore the small print. I might have been chosed b'ksheirim embarrassed

(And I'm not going to be neurotic and think, hm, we have a poster who is posting once, not replying, ok, ok, it's only been two hours but we have no idea who she is [though takeh, she could have gone as amother] and I really hope she's not phishing for lots of people enthusiastically telling her to lie so she could use this against us somewhere - us in general, not just we here on this thread.)

Last edited by PinkFridge on Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:54 am; edited 3 times in total

FranticFrummie

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:48 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Everyone SHOULD a lot of things. When you live in a world of strict black and white thinking, people are not trusted to do things at their own discretion.

PinkFridge

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 9:54 am

Gut wrote:

Sorry for the wrong title, english is not my first language.

The school send this letter, last week out of the blue. They wont to ban internet use. Only permit it for work.

I find it very disturbing.

Going back to edit my post ;-D
Is there anyone in the school's administration you feel comfortable with and approaching as partners in your child's chinuch? Do you have any IRL friends who are also parents who you can talk to about it?

amother

Lemon

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 1:55 pm

Are they banning the students from using you tube or the parents? If for the studends, I would follow rules & not allow my kids to watch. If first parents, I would sign & write bli neder & only use YouTube when alone so my kids wouldn't know.
Schools have so many silly rules, its impossible to keep up. If your generally good & under the radar, than just keep quiet about what you do.

Miri7

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 2:21 pm

I don't think any school would want me to avoid youtube - honestly, it's the only way that my DD, who loves her long, long, hair, doesn't walk around with a rat's nest. Youtube is where I learned to do french braids, fish tail braids, dutch braids....I've never seen anything remotely inappropriate on youtube (though I'm sure it's there) even though I watch R-rated movies all the time.

My DS has also used youtube for leyning and such.

These are all pretty noble uses of the youtube platform, if you ask me!

These blanket rules are really hard to impose on people, it's like saying "don't read words" because it's getting at the medium and not the content.

That said, I wouldn't lie. That could put me in a tough situation. Perhaps I would go to the head of school and say, look, I'm not going to lie, but I do use YouTube for hair braiding videos and for some frum audio content. What should I do - I really want my kid to go here, but there is no way I'm going to lie to you to get her in. Perhaps that will demonstrate your excellent middot - or maybe not. My kids go to MO schools so this is all a bit foreign to me.

Frumwithallergies

Wed, Oct 31 2018, 2:22 pm

Is it possible to have an honest discussion with the school administrators or rabbinical authorities regarding the use of Youtube? Our MO school isn't very good at enforcing the tzanua dress code for some mother's, even though we all signed forms..... some of my dc's friends watch movies that I would never dream of letting them watch until they can make these choices for themselves.

That being said, I don't think it is ok to out this on a form. Better to voice your concern / use of youtube than hide it. Why spend your life worrying that this information slips out later during the year?