PSA: Responsible Non-Vaccination

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amother

Powderblue

Thu, Nov 01 2018, 2:28 pm

This is a PSA.

Some people are not vaccinating because they are afraid of the potential side effects of vaccinations. Others because they prefer the natural disease and the lifelong immunity it carries. There is certainly validity to these concerns.

BUT it's a package deal. You can't just not vaccinate and say you are doing the best for your children's health.

So here's some questions to ask yourself to make sure you are not vaccinating RESPONSIBLY:

1) Do you know what measles looks like? Mumps? Whooping cough? Chicken pox?

2) Do you know how to use the Vitamin C protocol in whooping cough? Do you know what "gut tolerance" is? Do you know how to recognize respiratory distress?

3) Do you know how much Vitamin A to give in the case of measles? Do you know what MUST be avoided in the case of measles?

4) Do you take steps to actively boost your family's immune system? Are you taking steps to ensure proper nutrition and avoidance of toxins?

5) Do you have a doctor or naturopath who supports you?

6) Do you have job flexibility that allows you to keep contagious children away from others?

7) Do you feel confident, in private times between you and Hashem, that you are making a proper decision for the correct reasons?

If the above are true, Kol Hakavod. Not vaccinating is one small part of ensuring your family's health. Wishing you and your children good health and long lives.

If the above are NOT true, then you need to seriously ask yourself if you are making an informed and responsible choice here. "I'm scared of autism" is not a good reason not to make any hishtadlus.

If you have not vaccinated because of fear of side effects, I propose that you follow these steps to minimize side effects:

1) Do not vaccinate sick children. Even a minor cold. The immune system reacts differently, and the results are not always good.

2) Spread out vaccines. Give 1, or preferably 2, months between each vaccine. If separate shots are available instead of combos, take those. This gives the body more chance to recover, and you more chance to notice serious side effects if ch"v some were starting to develop.

3) If you are comfortable doing this, and there are no immediate outbreaks, consider postponing shots in younger infants.

4) Consider postponing certain vaccines if you are comfortable with the diseases and less so in the shot - I.e. chicken pox. Some wait and give the shot to a teen if they never contracted natural chicken pox, which is more serious in adults.

5) If a child has a bad reaction, stop vaccinating that child. Their body is telling you that they cannot handle them. The risk/benefit ratio has just changed significantly, and it may not be worth the risk anymore.

Wishing everyone much success in making the correct and responsible decision for their families.

amother

Olive

Thu, Nov 01 2018, 7:13 pm

amother wrote:

2) Do you know how to use the Vitamin C protocol in whooping cough? Do you know what "gut tolerance" is? Do you know how to recognize respiratory distress?

3) Do you know how much Vitamin A to give in the case of measles? Do you know what MUST be avoided in the case of measles?

Wonderful post. Thanks for sharing!

What is the Vitamin C protocol and how is it to be applied in case of whooping cough? How to recognize respiratory distress?

Can you say more about Vitamin A in case of measles? How much? What MUST be avoided in the case of measles?

Thanks again!

amother

Powderblue

Thu, Nov 01 2018, 10:15 pm

I will mention before replying that I decided that the correct decision in my case was YES to vaccinate, because I do not have the time, energy, or finances required to make not vaccinating a responsible choice.

I will also point out that if you don't have reliable sources of information on how to handle VPDs, then not vaccinating might not be right for you.

That being said, whooping cough and measles sometimes happen despite vaccinating.

In brief, the symptoms of whooping cough (the "whoop" and the coughing fits) can be completely controlled by megadoses of Vitamin C. We're talking WAY WAY more vitamin C than you can get in a pill or from OJ, in the many thousands of percent of the recommended daily values. A vitamin C pill or even Emergen-C type drink is useless here.

Best is if it is in the form of sodium ascorbate. It needs to be taken until gut tolerance, meaning until your body starts excreting the excess in the form of diarrhea. AND, because the body processes it so quickly, it needs to be taken every 2 hours or so. It tastes a bit salty and like baking soda, so it is usually given by medicine dropper or mixed into a strong flavored juice (like cherry, pomegranate, or grapefruit). It can be hard to get a kid to agree to take it, but it is essential for taking away the dangerous cough. This must be done for at least a few weeks, possibly around the clock.

Measles depletes the body very quickly of Vitamin A. Mainstream medicine also agrees that Vitamin A deficiency is a factor in severe measles, but they don't mention that measles can CAUSE the deficiency in the first place. Additionally, megadoses of Vitamin A (often in the form of cod liver oil) will often cause an immediate improvement in a severe measles case, and have reversed eye damage from the measles as well. (I am not quoting the sources, but you can find them yourself on Google, verified by Cochrane.)

High doses means in the range of 200,000 IU per day (less in infants), but this must be done with the guidance of a doctor to avoid vitamin A toxicity (which is rare, but can happen). Vitamin C can also be extremely helpful with measles.

Most important to avoid with measles is fever reducers. Fever is the body's way of dealing with the virus, taking away the fever is taking away the body's best weapon!

Again, if this info is new to you and you don't know how to find out more about it, it may not be a good idea to decide against vaccination. You have to be very informed and proactive about health to not vaccinate responsibly.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Nov 01 2018, 11:44 pm

I think we need a post on responsible vaccination. It is more important to research something before you do it than to research before you don't do it.
You can always change your mind and vaccinate, but you can never unvaccinate. Learn the risks.

amother

Powderblue

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 12:22 am

amother wrote:

Read the end of my original post.

I should probably add that any and all immune boosters (including adequate vitamin levels, sunshine, probiotics/fermented foods, etc.) will likely also minimize chances of negative reactions.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 8:56 am

The only way to responsibly non-vax, is to go live on an island with all the other non-vaxxers.

Keep your germs and viruses to yourselves.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 8:57 am

The only way to responsibly non-vax, is to go live on an island with all the other non-vaxxers.

Keep your germs and viruses to yourselves.

irrationalrose

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 9:16 am

powderblue it sounds like severe dehydration would be a probable side affect of vitC treatment for whooping cough.

Mommyg8

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 9:22 am

irrationalrose wrote:

powderblue it sounds like severe dehydration would be a probable side affect of vitC treatment for whooping cough.

Why?

I am a huge vitamin C fan, and find it works well.

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 9:23 am

amother wrote:

Most important to avoid with measles is fever reducers. Fever is the body's way of dealing with the virus, taking away the fever is taking away the body's best weapon!

dangerous advice. Fever from the measles is what gets so many kids admitted to the hospital. The fever can be very high. When it gets high it can cause seizures but can also cause permanent brain damage and even death.

You can make this argument about any infection, that fever is good, but the high fever, which is more common with measles, is dangerous.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 9:26 am

Quote:

Most important to avoid with measles is fever reducers. Fever is the body's way of dealing with the virus, taking away the fever is taking away the body's best weapon!

When I was 3 years old, I had a high fever, and lost over 75% of my hearing due to nerve damage. This is not what I would consider a minor side effect. Mad

irrationalrose

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 9:40 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Why?

I am a huge vitamin C fan, and find it works well.

how much vitamin C "works well" for you? powderblue said

amother wrote:

Best is if it is in the form of sodium ascorbate. It needs to be taken until gut tolerance, meaning until your body starts excreting the excess in the form of diarrhea. AND, because the body processes it so quickly, it needs to be taken every 2 hours or so. It tastes a bit salty and like baking soda, so it is usually given by medicine dropper or mixed into a strong flavored juice (like cherry, pomegranate, or grapefruit). It can be hard to get a kid to agree to take it, but it is essential for taking away the dangerous cough. This must be done for at least a few weeks, possibly around the clock.

I would think that a child having diarrhea that oftenfor that long will get severely dehydrated unless you are agressively hydrating.

Mommyg8

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 9:47 am

irrationalrose wrote:

I would think that a child having diarrhea that oftenfor that long will get severely dehydrated unless you are agressively hydrating.

I've done vitamin C, so I know what she's talking about.

You are misunderstanding the protocol. You give vitamin C until gut tolerance, which means that the person starts getting diarrhea. It's not a dangerous kind. Then you give a little less than the amount you were giving, so you just get diarrhea for a short amount of time - hardly dangerous.

I think it's a bit complicated, and it's not widely used because - well, most people do immunize. And give antibiotics when necessary for other illnesses.

But I just did this myself. I had a bad cold/cough/asthma that was just not going away and I just did this vitamin C regiment on myself. It really helped!!!

amother

Denim

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 10:18 am

Very hi fever can be critical. My son was doing a treatment for something else....that fever was expected to show body fighting. He was on anti-seizure meds for a week before to prevent seizures once the fever comes in. It ended spiking up very hi.
He was in a hospital for over a month to monitor him. He was critically ill in icu from the hi fever. Bp dropped to the bottom. HR was dangerously hi. They gave him Tylenol every 2 hrs to stabilize the fever. They gave him tons of fluid then his body blew up & filled up with the water. Also gave him thru IV whatever he was missing due to the loss of nutrients because he was not eating.The water went to his lungs. He couldn't breathe needed oxygen. Then got lasix to push out water. Then his bp went too hi & needed meds to push down. My son didn't eat for a week. Sleeping 24/7 for a week. Lost tons of weight. They said I was lucky with these side effects & that he didn't stay with permanent brain & kidney damage. I don't know if measles does same thing but the side effects of very hi fever is nothing to sneeze about.

amother

Ruby

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 12:05 pm

amother wrote:

It's dangerous to lump all immune boosters into the same category. When trying to minimize adverse effects of vaccines, you want to *downplay* the immune response. Most adverse events occur because of immune over-activation, which vaccines are designed to cause, by way of adjuvants. You are looking to protect healthy, normal immune responses so what you'd want to supplement with are anti-inflammatories, immune regulators and immune mediators. Plus also supplements that open detox pathways, bind to toxins and escort them out of the body. Many immune booster actually promote inflammation, which can be a positive thing in the case of actual illness, but dangerous when paired with adjuvants. Proponents of safe vaccination actually advise discontinuing immune boosting herbs and supplements for 2 weeks prior to vaccination.

amother

Ruby

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 12:07 pm

amother wrote:

Sorry for what you went through with your son. That all must have been so scary!! That being said, you mentioned that he was in treatment for something else, that means he already wasn't in the best of health. In such a case it's not a great idea to extrapolate from his reaction to the rest of the population.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 12:39 pm

1) As someone who has actually gotten whooping cough at 13(before they started giving boosters), I can say vitamin c does zero.

2) It was miserable and I wouldn't wish it on anyone please get your vaccinations up to date thank you.

cookies6

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 12:39 pm

How is this responsible to other people outside your house when measles, for example, can be in the system for two weeks before symptoms even appear?

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 12:44 pm

It is mind boggling to me that this thread has not been deleted.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BEING RESPONSIBLE WHEN YOU DO NOT VACCINATE.

I would not want to be you at the end of 120 years, when Hashem says to you: I put you in the world at a time in history where you could prevent yourself, your children and others from getting diseases, and you didn't take advantage of it. Instead you put others at risk and perhaps even caused someone damage as a result.

As someone else posted, go live on a deserted Pacific Island.

Sebastian

Fri, Nov 02 2018, 1:06 pm

Responsible non vaccinating: do not have children or work with children or sick or elderly ppl
Turn down whatever vaccines you want for yourself.
Imo it is selfish to put your child at risk for a potentially dangerous and painful disease because you are scared. If it s so frightening stay on birth control.

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