I'm Seas, ask me anything

dankbar

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 12:09 pm

About couple therapy.....they have sholom bayis problems because they dont see eye to eye...they both think that their way is the right one....the don't want to be mevater to each others....one might have a mental illness which they dont even know they have....and affecting the other one....so once their problems become so entrenched or one suffers already the damage of the others....they need a third party which can be a therapist who will be a sholom macher & see why they get onto each others nerves, try to help them compromise.....or try make person with probs aware & change....at that point they might not even communicate with each others anymore....so they need a new pair of eyes....objective point of view & yes they both need to do the work. A couple that communicates in a healthy manner....tries to see the other side....is mevater....compromises....tries to make the other side happy....foesnt see only himself & only himself as the right one....yes can work things out on their own....but Hey! then they are already having sholom bayis & don't need help.

dankbar

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 12:23 pm

Seas when your saying about making a bracha when uncovered....you can turn away or make a bracha elsewhere but you're not bes din or G-d to judge & punish other people. Your saying bes din still punished....whatever....but that's why theyre bes din. Yes in Torah we do see if someone sinned- u look at kavana & motive behind it. Like in hilchos shabbos the same act sometimes mutar & sometimes assur depends on kavana. Maybe person with short sleeves who is coming from sleeveless that lil piece of fabric added, that mesiras nefesh, is so chashuv by Hashem that they will even get rewarded for it instead of punished for not following halacha. Wheras a ffb petson might yes get punished for wearing short sleeves if they knew better. A tzadik gets dan chut lsarah, the holier the more wrong it is of them to do any tiny infraction. Just like anything a king or president does it's much more scrutinized than if an avg person who do same act. Lhavdil.

Seas

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 12:25 pm

iyar wrote:

Seas I'm not sure I'm understanding you.
When you say "actual illnesses" you're saying mental illness can't be helped? I think you're wrong about that, but I don't have the experience or expertise to offer a solid answer.
Is there a doctor on this board? Any psychiatrists or psychologists here? Someone with the authority to set this straight for the record?
Also, are you suggesting treatment for addiction, couples therapy and anger management can be replaced with sifrei mussar?
Not a good idea.
I hope someone who has studied this topic and has the experience necessary to comment will post an appropriate response. I'm not qualified to comment myself but I didn't want to let this pass.

A lot of mental illness such as schizophrenia, bipolar etc. can't be cured. Some can be reasonably well controlled with medication. And only after much trial and error, as psychiatric medication is very far from an exact science. Further than for most other ailments.

Behavorial issues such as anger management, non-physiological addiction and more, can absolutely be worked on without "professional therapy". In fact, the Torah way is for someone to work on their anger with the help of a rav and mussar sefer.

Furthermore, the common therapies for said problems, are not evidence based at all. They're basically just a therapist telling you to shape up. Only she uses fancier terms.

Think about it, if therapy would work, why do people go for years for the same problem?

(Something which I found really helpful, which I heard from Rav Avigdor Miller and from his grandson Rabbi Brog, is a knas - fine. Basically you make a neder that if you do such and such, you'll pay x amount to tzedakah, same day, in cash, to a charity of an opposing kehila - like a Satmarer promises to give to Lubavitch.

You have to make sure the amount is something that would hurt you. It's also easier not to do it for a lifetime, but to undertake first for a certain amount of time, and then add more time and so on.

I personally found it helped me with various aveiros that I kept being oiver, despite being mekabel not to. When you know there's an immediate physical cost, rather than an abstract one, it's much easier to resist.)

Last edited by Seas on Tue, Nov 06 2018, 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

Seas

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 12:26 pm

dankbar wrote:

What's your relevant point?

dankbar

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 3:00 pm

Some halacha is clear cut & black and white. Some have diff interpretations from diff Rabbis- to just blatantly say this is wrong because it's not your derech is not always right. Let say head covering. Youre supposed to cover full head, fine. Now R' moshe Feinstein paskaned, was matir after the war, that the first 1-2 inches is allowed to be uncovered. So when a chassidishe woman sees that a litvish lady has her hair in front uncovered she gets hysterical how can she, its against halacha! Yet if you understand that she was mekabel a diff ruling from her gadol then you look at things diff. For a chassidishe lady who doesn't go by R Moshe, even if one tiny hair sticks out she is oiver. Same thing with covering legs. I'm not sure if according to Torah feet below knees till ankle is supposed to be covered. If you walk into a Satmar classroom, though, & even read from the tznius halacha book it clearly says...anyone that doesn't wear palm tights, is not tsenuah. She's like a shikse, a [gentile]! You can't even make a bracha in front of her because she's not covered in the bullet proof socks. Start knowing diff interpretations. Some rule that as long it's visible that foot is covered it's not a problem like if she's wearing a thin see thru black sock but it's obvious it's not her feet it's ok. If she is wearing a thicker sock in beige coloring where it exact same color as her foot can be a problem as well even bigger. Everyone has their derech & their rav that they follow. It's diff of opinion if that part is called ervah or not

4pom

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 5:35 pm

I’m finding these threads I missed over last few days interesting.
This one in particular made me pause.
I think I was Seas in my twenties.
Not so much in how I spoke to other people- bc I was not outspoken in any way. But, in my belief system.
Life and challenges have changed me. And what’s interesting is that I never even noticed the change on myself until this whole Pittsburgh tragedy and the reactions.
And then this thread.
Truth- measured al pi bes shammai may be according to Seas and Co..
but IMHO and there are plenty rabbanim who I follow - its not the time and place to preach truth al pi Shammai. In fact that itself could be- krumm. The world we live in needs to follow derech hillel. And in fact that is halacha - and how we light Chanuka candles.

I remember asking - about an addicted smoker who Is expected to keep shabbos. I heard Rav Avigdor Miller say - if he doesnt stop at least one less than he could have then thats what he will be chayav on. Example he could have smoked 19 instead of 25.
This went against my rigid understanding of Torah- if Hashem gave us Mitzvos we are meant to be able to keep them. Now!!
And when I presented this question there were those who disagreed with rav Miller and said thenoyuer point was truth!!
- Now I see how that I didn't take into account basic human reality of emotional growth.
And that today when we are told. Mechallel shabbos is allowed in the hope that this person will go on to keep many more Shabbosos... that is a reflection of each individual spiritual life journey.
Basically, Gd is beyond time. But we are living in this world of process and need to accept that limitation..
Of course theres an ultimate truth. But part of the truth is to treat people with love and kindness and decency. It isnt decent to decry right and wrong when there are dead bodies. Now is the time for love!!
The argument that I’m choosing ahavas Yisroel of those whose standards reject Torah values at the cost of Torah values - has an element of truth. But in no way justifies dropping the ahavas Yisroel, because in this generation- that is our avodah. Know your standards- ( everyone has a line they wont cross) but treat people with love and basic decency!
..
Anyway just a few thoughts.

Seas

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 6:45 pm

4pom wrote:

The argument that I’m choosing ahavas Yisroel of those whose standards reject Torah values at the cost of Torah values - has an element of truth. But in no way justifies dropping the ahavas Yisroel, because in this generation- that is our avodah. Know your standards- ( everyone has a line they wont cross) but treat people with love and basic decency!
..
Anyway just a few thoughts.

Let me push back a bit on that. Do you also completely love those who've wronged you personally? What about those who are judged by society to be evil, like molesters etc., do you love them too?

If not, doesn't that show that your love for those who reject Torah values isn't motivated by ahavas Yisroel, but they simply don't offend your sensibilities?

4pom

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 6:56 pm

Seas wrote:

Actually I dont think its about actually really loving those who reject Torah. Its about acting decently and kindly to them.. because I believe thats the Torah way. (And no I dont necessarily believe its everyones job to go out of the way to do that.) But I do go out of my way not to do the opposite..
And about those who have hurt my feelings... that’s my job too... to act towards them with kindness and decency despite the hurt. And yes, realistically its easier to do it with those who have rejected Torah than those who have actively hurt me. That tells you and the world that I’m far more attached to my own feelings than the will of Hashem.. that is human of me. Honestly to claim otherwise would be false. Is it sad on some Higher level that this is so? Of course. But I actually own my humanity and prefer that than what I did in my teenage years and twenties- denied the emotional reality of being human.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 10:40 pm

Seas wrote:

What about when the issues are black and white, like the 13 ani maamins, do we still need to accept and love those who don't believe in Hashem and His Torah?

Acceptance and love of a person does not have to be connected to the way they serve hashem or how they practice judaism.
I know that if I love someone it is on the merit of so many things, their avodat hashem hardly plays into it at all.
It makes me sad to think that there could be a lovely person out there that you would not accept in your life solely based on how s/he serves hashem. To me, that is not what judaism is about.

sneakermom

Wed, Nov 07 2018, 6:06 am

Seas it’s a good thing you’re not God. If you were, you would smite us all for our “infractions”.

God understands that in order for the world to exist he needs to temper his din with mercy. Mostly mercy and some din.

You just do din. No mercy. No empathy.

Also in Tanya it explains that we each have a nefesh habhamis, and a Godly soul.

The nefesh habhamis is self serving. The Godly soul is selfless.

It’s good for us to identify ourselves with our Godly souls. And to see the Godly souls in others. This fosters ahavas yisroel. Because we are each a piece of God. We are one of the same.

If we focus on the nefesh habhamis then we have no interest in each other. Each of us have our own self serving agenda. We are actually just competing against each other. Or judging each other.

Hashem is one. And he craves our achdus. Our ability to be one. Our ability to put our nefesh habhamis on the side and merge as a collection of souls that all have one source.

If we get petty and judgemental. If we imagine that we are better and others are sinners. Then we are blocking this achdus from taking place. We are rejecting parts of ourselves. Each yid is a part of ourselves. Their spark they carry should never be lost! We need to catch it and allow it to connect to the “whole”.

We do that by seeing the spark. By allowing one spark to connect to the next spark. Without allowing the nefesh habhamis to distract us or block this process.

A yid carries this spark. No matter what!! And if you identify with your Godly soul you can connect to the other persons Godly soul. No matter what. And that connection brings light to the world!

Another point in Tanya is the understanding that someone that does Torah and mitzvos is not necessarily a tzaddik. That’s deluding yourself.

A tzaddik is someone that overcame his yetzer hara. And that is so rare and also comes as a gift from god.

The average person could hope to be a “bein oni” someone that never sins but has to fight his urge to sin.

Most of us though, in the process are in the category of “rasha”. And it doesn’t mean evil. It means someone who struggles and sometimes the nefesh habhamis wins and sometimes the Godly soul wins.

And Hashem gets pleasure from that struggle. The struggle that the Godly soul has to overcome and elevate the nefesh habhamis.

So we can have joy. Joy in the process of identifying with our Godly soul and struggling to stick to the Godly soul.

The problem comes when someone who might not have learned Tanya. That person might do a lot of mitzvos, and study Torah and they imagine they are a tzaddik!! And furthermore, they imagine others are reshaim!

They don’t realize that they are in fact similar to the Rasha! They are both struggling! Perhaps one loses more often. But their operating systems are the same!

In addition. The judgemental additude is not coming from from the Godly soul! The Godly soul can connect to another Godly soul, no questions asked. Only the nefesh habhamis engages in judgemental or arrogant behavior.

At the end of the day the Godly soul seeks out all things Godly. Torah and mitzvos. And the spark in each Jew.

Am yisroel chai! May we stand as one soul and never let anything divide us!!

PinkFridge

Wed, Nov 07 2018, 6:08 am

Seas wrote:

It can work. I remember reading a book about quitting smoking that advocated that. (The Leibowitz something or other?) But if it would work that easily for everyone who wanted to change - assuming they're fully on board with the need to change - you'd have a lot fewer overweight people in this world.

PinkFridge

Wed, Nov 07 2018, 6:11 am

Seas wrote:

No, because I don't equate tinokos shenishbu with molesters. (Do you?)

Or maybe you'll tell me I'm conflating the compassion I feel for tinokos shenishbu with ahavas Yisrael, and they're two different things and the first is fully appropriate?