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Rabbi Handler on Vaccines, Politics and the Autism Holocaust
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Mevater




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 11:24 am
southernbubby wrote:
The CDC doesn't want to weaken the public's trust in vaccines because they believe that vaccines keep the public healthy. Sometimes in the interest of protecting public trust, they hide important info and this only distances the public further from trusting the CDC.


Whatever you do in life, there are risks. But the risks vs. benefits have to be weighed.

Are you saying that not vaccinating would be better for the general population, than vaccinating?
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amother




Babyblue


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 11:31 am
amother wrote:
Of course we should all be proponents of healthy nutrition, but unlike preventable diseases, nosh and donuts are not killing any children.
The comparison is so stupid.


It’s not stupid at all. Anyone who thinks allowing large quantities of soda, nosh, food coloring, etc is not harming the health of their children is completely ignorant. Read any book on health and nutrition. You won’t find any argument that this type of diet isn’t harmful.

The leading cause of death during any period of time was not measles, not even close.
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amother




Orchid


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 11:34 am
Since posters are making comparisons, how about this one: The Lev Tahor cult is only hurting themselves and their children. The anti-vax community is WORSE THAN THEM because they are affecting others' children.

At the end of 120 years, THEY will have to explain why they endangered (and G-d forbid, worse) others because they didn't use the brains G-d gave them.
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amother




Babyblue


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 11:38 am
amother wrote:
Since posters are making comparisons, how about this one: The Lev Tahor cult is only hurting themselves and their children. The anti-vax community is WORSE THAN THEM because they are affecting others' children.

At the end of 120 years, THEY will have to explain why they endangered (and G-d forbid, worse) others because they didn't use the brains G-d gave them.


How about everybody stop pretending you know what happens after 120. Stop pretending you know what god wants. You have no scientific proof.
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amother




Smokey


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 11:40 am
amother wrote:
How about everybody stop pretending you know what happens after 120. Stop pretending you know what god wants. You have no scientific proof.

Neither do anti-vaxxers.
All their research conclusions are bogus.
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amother




Lavender


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 11:41 am
Mevater wrote:
Whatever you do in life, there are risks. But the risks vs. benefits have to be weighed.

Are you saying that not vaccinating would be better for the general population, than vaccinating?

Why black and white? All or nothing? Why can't we have better studies about the safety of the current vaccine schedule? Why can't we figure out a way to vaccinate safely? Why do we need to shove it down people's throats or else? In the early days of vaccinations, they were voluntary and most people signed up because they wanted the immunity. Why did we change from that dynamic to one where we now must shoot up our kids with 32 vaccines (many combos) by the time they are 12 months old? And if we question this, then we are "anti-vax"?
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amother




Orchid


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 11:41 am
"pretending"? Have you never heard of "din v'cheshbon". Yeah, Hashem will judge us for everything we did.
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amother




Babyblue


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 11:43 am
amother wrote:
"pretending"? Have you never heard of "din v'cheshbon". Yeah, Hashem will judge us for everything we did.


Where’s the scientific proof?

I’m sure god loves all the bullying and hate, and lack of faith that goes on here too.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 11:50 am
Mevater wrote:
Whatever you do in life, there are risks. But the risks vs. benefits have to be weighed.

Are you saying that not vaccinating would be better for the general population, than vaccinating?



Honestly, I don't know if it would be better or worse. I personally take every vaccine available because I hedge my bets on the vaccine working and keeping me from getting the disease. I certainly appreciate the choice. Society is not built anymore on SAHMs who can nurse everyone back to health after an illness. Sick people are forced to be out and about. We are also a very mobile society so even though diphtheria has been eliminated from the US, it is still killing lots of people in India and people come to the US from India routinely. Unlike measles, where most people recover, diphtheria has a high death rate even with treatment.

I also have a son, who as a child had a bad vaccine reaction and couldn't get any more vaccines as per the CDC and his doctors. The doctor that he has now feels that it would be safe now that he is an adult but he is afraid to go through with it now that he is responsible for his family. His children, however, see doctors for everything including vaccines and he puts his trust in doctors. He was born 3 months early and modern medicine saved his life so he isn't about to throw it under the bus now.

I certainly think that in countries and situations where people have many concur-ant infections, or in military barracks, DP camps, wars and famines, vaccines are an absolute must. In situations where people are unlikely to ever have those diseases or die of them if they do catch them, then it becomes a possibility of choice.
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amother




Orchid


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 12:00 pm
Babyblue: talk about "where's the faith": you need scientific proof that Hashem will judge us after we die?? Do you know Yigdal? The thirteen principles of Jewish faith? And how about al somchim al hanes?
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amother




Babyblue


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 12:09 pm
amother wrote:
Babyblue: talk about "where's the faith": you need scientific proof that Hashem will judge us after we die?? Do you know Yigdal? The thirteen principles of Jewish faith? And how about al somchim al hanes?


It seems that people on here need scientific proof for everything, yet believe in something and revolve their lives around something that is absolutely not what the majority believes and that mostly has no scientific proof whatsoever. The vast majoriity don’t follow it and most likely believe it’s bogus as well. I find it fascinating and ironic at the same time.
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amother




Orchid


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 12:10 pm
Wait. The vast majority of people do not believe in Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith?
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amother




Babyblue


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 12:17 pm
amother wrote:
Wait. The vast majority of people do not believe in Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith?


The vast majority of the world? Nope. Many haven’t even heard of it.
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amother




Orchid


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 12:25 pm
Good L-rd. We are not speaking about the vast majority of the world. We are speaking about frum Jews who should know that the "choice" anti vaxers are making "endangers others and exposing others to that risk is a clear violation of Torah law of לא תעמוד על דם רעך." I am quoting the Vaad HaRabbonim of my community.
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amother




Babyblue


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 12:54 pm
I was just commenting on the hypocrisy of some people on this forum constantly asking for scientific proof and then on the other hand saying something like Hashem will say such and such after 120 as if it’s a fact.
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itsmeima




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 12:58 pm
amother wrote:
It’s not stupid at all. Anyone who thinks allowing large quantities of soda, nosh, food coloring, etc is not harming the health of their children is completely ignorant. Read any book on health and nutrition. You won’t find any argument that this type of diet isn’t harmful.

The leading cause of death during any period of time was not measles, not even close.


Right, it was soda shock
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ra_mom




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 1:00 pm
This is an insult to the memories of my grandparents who went through the horrors of the holocaust and their entire families, extended families and communities, which were wiped out completely along with 6,000,000 additional kedoshim.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 1:11 pm
Protecting the public doesn't appear to be the reason that most people vaccinate so I don't expect it to be something that people consider when they decide not to vaccinate.
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Mevater




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 1:49 pm
southernbubby wrote:
In situations where people are unlikely to ever have those diseases or die of them if they do catch them, then it becomes a possibility of choice.



Arent ALL newborns at risk, who have not yet gotten the vaccinations, if over a certain percentage of the population isnt vaccinated?

Thats what I thought the well known and highly respected R Dr Tatz says.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Nov 23 2018, 2:05 pm
Mevater wrote:
Arent ALL newborns at risk, who have not yet gotten the vaccinations, if over a certain percentage of the population isnt vaccinated?

Thats what I thought the well known and highly respected R Dr Tatz says.



Yes so if it became a choice, infants would have to be shielded from public exposure, rather than trying to quarantine those who are not vaccinated. It looks like that it is what is happening now anyway.

In France there is a major epidemic that was caused by low confidence in vaccines and the current trend of debunking all evidence of harm done by vaccines doesn't seem to be turning this around. There were already 3 deaths and a 22% hospitalization rate at the time of this article: https://www.vaccinestoday.eu/s.....t-hardest/

If it became a choice, babies would have to be kept away from the public and if exposed, receive immune globulin which I have had before and it feels like being kicked by a horse.

Basically if vaccinating the entire population is the goal, then either some of the vaccines need to be eliminated to reduce the load (or given as a choice), or some of the vaccines be given later in childhood, or more caution given to children who have had a bad reaction. We see that turning all non-vaccinated people into ignorant murderers is not improving the picture. And the lack of trust is understanding when a parent is railroaded into giving further vaccines to a child who has already had one bad reaction. That is not an anti-vaccine parent. It is a parent who see no reason to hide the fact that her child was harmed.
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