Challenge: Argue opposing viewpoint 2018

amother

Jade

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 5:27 pm

sarelle- that seems more believable

marina

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 5:28 pm

amother wrote:

I think we should start 100 threads publicizing every person in the frum community who was is accused of abuse with no proof and to heck with lashon hara laws and the Torah.

See Rule 1, thx

marina

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 5:30 pm

if I have some time later tonight, I can try to articulate what I agree with from opposing positions. Obviously I won't be able to articulate that for every position, but I am open to suggestions Smile

Give me a topic and I will write what I generally agree with from the view that I usually oppose.

Last edited by marina on Tue, Nov 27 2018, 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

InnerMe

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 5:30 pm

fmt4 wrote:

I was going to do this one!

Hey, you can still!
We may have different reasons why we think putting female pics is not a good idea. Laugh

Saralle

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 5:34 pm

amother wrote:

sarelle- that seems more believable

Hey thanks! Smile

InnerMe

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 5:39 pm

marina wrote:

I realize that the rules allow people to articulate positions they do not believe in at all. That's fine and it is still a useful exercise in understanding your opponent.

I used this opportunity a little differently - to articulate a part of the opposing position that I *do* agree with. In short, I believe in every word I wrote here, even though I usually argue in favor of decreasing current restrictions on refugees and asylum seekers:

Ahh.. that's interesting, Marina.
Yes, two different exercises.. although I see the wisdom in what you did in that it really helps you see that there are valid reasons why others think differently. It enables you to really expand your mind and sincerely feel why those that oppose may be feeling that way.

fmt4

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 6:16 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Indeed! Lol it’s good to see which side actually got my use of sarcasm....oy.

No, everyone got your super clever “sarcasm.” We just were hoping that this would be one thread where we wouldn’t have to deal with it. If you’re not going to do the challenge then stick to the other 100 threads that you started to rant about the same boring political positions.

Cheiny

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 6:49 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Ah, another polite liberal...I guess I understand your frustration these days though.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 6:53 pm

Here we go again Rolling Eyes

Last edited by amother on Thu, Jul 11 2019, 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total

SuperWify

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 7:14 pm

Not going on birth control and “taking whatever Hashem gives you” is preferable way for a Jewish family. If a wife is on birth control it is a big Shaila and not so simple for her DH to be with her due to his mitzvah of having kids. A Jewish woman’s biggest tafkid in this world is bringing in lots of children, helping her husband and running her home.

If the couple is worried about financial difficulties in raising many children, you really shouldn't worry because every child brings tremendous bracha into the home.
(Also you’ll be eligible for WIC and Medicaid for the entire family!)

If your worry you can’t handle- Hashem won’t give you anything you can’t handle.

If your worried you won’t have the energy- your mother and sisters all did and do it- so can you.

Besides the hormones of both control are really not beneficial to ones body.

*As an added plus of constantly being pregnant and nursing you’ll almost never be niddah.

When you’re kids are little they’ll have built in playmates and as they grow your big ones will help you with the little ones so you can manage easier.

One day you’ll be a shepping grandma with many many children and grandchildren who will help you and be there for you in your old days.

Wow!! That was so hard to write!! Banging head

I don’t think I need to explain! I think you all understand!!

sushilover

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 7:23 pm

marina wrote:

I'd love to hear you articulate a position you do not actually agree with. As in, present their best arguments even though you think your counterpoints are stronger.

Ravenclaw

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 7:51 pm

Can everyone do me a favor? I love this thread, and if people come on here to hijack it with no intent of trying the exercise , can we just ignore them? No point in engaging with a poster whose goal is to get us riled up. I wouldn’t want this thread to get locked for that.

Jeanette

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 8:09 pm

It's not such a big deal that Ivanka and Jared are in high level positions in the government. You cant prevent a president from talking to his family or seeking counsel from people outside the government. Trump is actually being more transparent than most in bringing Javanka into the government and giving them formal positions.

As to the concern of Jared or Ivanka representing the US in foreign affairs when they have little background or qualifications for this work, and possible undisclosed conflicts of interest, the American people who chose Trump as president already knew all this. They knew that Trump only trusts his own family and elected him anyway. Who are we to overturn the will of the American people?

(Whew, I made it my challenge to defend one of the most indefensible of Trump's actions and to do it without resorting to whataboutism. How did I do?)

Last edited by Jeanette on Tue, Nov 27 2018, 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

marina

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 8:35 pm

sushilover wrote:

I'd love to hear you articulate a position you do not actually agree with. As in, present their best arguments even though you think your counterpoints are stronger.

ok. Any particular topic?

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 8:38 pm

marina wrote:

ok. Any particular topic?

Why the Mueller investigation is a threat to America.

pause

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 8:59 pm

Frum Jews should not have internet access at home or on their phone. There is all kinds of dirt, garbage, apikorsus, and more, and as a frum Yid, you should not be exposing yourself to all of that. Even with a filter, bad things still come up because a filter isn't fool-proof. Whatever things you do on the internet, you can do without it like we've been doing all the years before its advent. Having internet access is a huge time waster. We spend time with a screen instead of with our kids/spouse/friends.

For extra credit ---
My response to this: The internet is a tool which can be used to access different things, similarly to a phone or car or newspapers. You can choose what to expose yourself to.

Things that I do on the internet are faster and easier, IOW altogether more convenient, leaving me MORE time to spend with family and friends. And if I wouldn't be on my computer, I would be reading a book or doing a cross-word puzzle or talking on the phone - which also wastes time and takes me away from kids/spouse/friends.

As an introvert, I usually prefer to stay home and relax rather than go out with friends. And when I'm in the mood to go out with friends, I do, so internet access is not hindering me in that sense.

Counter-argument: Some tools are destructive. Just like you wouldn't keep a chainsaw in your house, but if you absolutely need it, you'll borrow one or rent one, so too, the internet is dangerous and should not be easily accessed.

Even with choosing your exposure, you are still seeing/reading things (such as on imamother) that are against your hashkafa and it does have a subtle insidious effect on you.

As for convenience, that's a small price to pay for the purity of your soul. And anyway, all the ordering and returning and re-ordering items from online shopping is not necessarily more convenient in the long run...

Even if you would be doing other time-wasting things, the level of your attention and absorption in them are not the same as the screen because there's a certain magnetic pull to the screen. When you are interrupted by a child while posting on imamother, it will be harder for you to divert your attention from there and towards the child rather than if you would be interrupted while reading a book.

As for introverts, having internet access causes them to become hermit-like to an unhealthy degree because if typically they need that extra push to get out and meet people, now it is even harder for them because they can delude themselves they are getting a social outlet from social media when in reality it's just not the same thing.

Last edited by pause on Tue, Nov 27 2018, 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

pause

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 9:02 pm

Schools have every right to make rules for parents. They cater to a specific crowd and in order to ensure that their families are appropriate for their school, they create rules that wouldn't be difficult for their target families to abide by. If you have a problem with these rules, don't send there.

sushilover

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 9:37 pm

marina wrote:

ok. Any particular topic?

Affirmative action hurts minorities
Abortion should be illegal in many circumstances
Twilight is the literary masterpiece of our generation
Trump is a genius

causemommysaid

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 9:45 pm

sushilover wrote:

Twilight is the literary masterpiece of our generation

amother

Yellow

Tue, Nov 27 2018, 9:46 pm

sushilover wrote:

Affirmative action hurts minorities
Abortion should be illegal in many circumstances
Twilight is the literary masterpiece of our generation
Trump is a genius

Liberals love this country more then they hate trump