I got myself in a pickle

amother

Navy

Tue, Dec 18 2018, 8:47 pm

I see no reason to change your current system of checking Common Sense Media. CSM didn't fail you, you failed to follow up with the later books (not saying that as a judgment on you, it was an honest mistake anyone could make). Now you know that with a series, you have to check each book in the series before greenlighting even the first one.

As for what to tell her now, you got some really good answers here, so use those.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Dec 18 2018, 9:14 pm

amother wrote:

The author Rick Roirdan my older kids liked the Percy Jackson series, so did DH

I think it just depends on where you're holding. Some homes will allow no mention of magic whatsoever, even fairy tales. Something about "not suffering a witch to live", which I'm not sure how that applies to fictional characters. (And Bellatrix totally needed to die. Wink

)

Aside from Harry Potter, DD also really enjoyed the Fable Haven series, and I loved the Night Garden series. I actually don't have the last book from Night Garden, and it's driving me crazy!

Hans Xian Anderson's stories are classics, and while they can sometimes be depressing, they always have a moral to the tale. They are based more on the German and Scandinavian stories of old.

Some other classics are Where the Red Fern Grows, and Old Yeller.

All of the American Girl Doll books are excellent, except the Rebecca story line. Her father works on Shabbos, and the author makes it sound like he's doing a huge mitzvah because he helps people when his shop is open on a Saturday. The author is very Reform and Feminist, and it shows pretty heavily in her writing. I was SO disappointed in that series.

DD and I had enormous fun with the Lemony Snicket series. I would read aloud to her because there were some very big words, but the story line was great, and super fun. I'd do different voices for all the characters, and it would just crack us up. It was such a lovely bonding time.

chanchy123

Wed, Dec 19 2018, 4:24 am

So my daughter has read anything Rick Riordan wrote which was translated to Hebrew. She's 13 now and DL, not chareidi. I didn't realize there was anything LGBTQ in those books until we started talking about these issues at home (surrounding the surrogacy for gay men debate in Israeli politics). We discussed the Torah view of gay relationships and then she shared that she has actually read about something similar in Magnus Chase.
I don't mind her reading about things we don't approve of doing, but I do wish I had known what was in the book so we could have a discussion about these issues and the Torah perspective towards this.

These are issues, unfortunately, which our children will have to face in their teen/adult real-life, even in the frum world. I'm happy to have a news item or a book be a good prompt for this discussion that we have to have over a real person we actually know. I think that it is important that our children know these things exist and that they are wrong. Otherwise, they have no way to form their opinions of this. Just like they read about characters that go to Church or worship Zeus. They understand these things exist - but we don't do them.

Regarding Greek Mythology. I don't see any problem with that. That is an avoda zara that has been eradicated from the world. It is permissible to visit a Greek temple because it has been eradicated. it's not like my kids are going to start worshiping Greek gods now.

Do your children not read Little Women too because it's full of Khristianity? I think our children are and should be intelligent enough to discern between what characters in a book do and proper behavior for themselves.

I do understand why OP is hesitant to allow her DD to read such books. I'm also not super happy to have my kids be exposed to progressive ideology. I think OP got great advice here. And the key is to keep an open dialogue with our children so we can discuss what they are exposed to try give it the Torah view. As they grow older it's harder to keep tabs on this. So all more important to keep open lines of dialogue, so when they do encounter something off or explicit they can share.

imasinger

Wed, Dec 19 2018, 6:52 am

chanchy123 wrote:

...And the key is to keep an open dialogue with our children so we can discuss what they are exposed to try give it the Torah view. As they grow older it's harder to keep tabs on this. So all more important to keep open lines of dialogue, so when they do encounter something off or explicit they can share.

This.

Very, very important.

Thanks for wording it so well.

salt

Wed, Dec 19 2018, 7:12 am

Have there been other books in the past that you've said no to, after looking them up on this list?
If so, how did you explain it to her then?
Did you just say "Common Sense Media says it's not suilable for your age"?
Why can't you say the same with this one?
I understand it may be a little more disappointing as it's the next book in the series, but I assume you didn't give her the details of what is not appropriate with other books either.

"I trust this website and it says this book is not good for young teens" zehu.

amother

Brown

Wed, Dec 19 2018, 7:21 am

Ok I’ll chime in. I’m a BT & was always an avid reader. I swallowed books whole.
When I became frum I stopped reading non Jewish books because they were hashkafikaly so wrong. Books influence our values in insidious ways.
As a parent I never let my children read any non Jewish books. I went to great lengths to buy or borrow all the books as they were released. My kids have a high command of the English language & several write professionally as adults now.
If this episode taught you anything it should be to ban any non Jewish literature from your daughters reading. I would definitely discuss what she’s already read & tell her that it’s against the Torah & you know see why non Jewish books should not be read.
This is your child’s neshoma you’re talking about & no amount of “good” non Jewish literature is worth endangering that for.

sequoia

Wed, Dec 19 2018, 10:57 am

amother wrote:

Ok I’ll chime in. I’m a BT & was always an avid reader. I swallowed books whole.
When I became frum I stopped reading non Jewish books because they were hashkafikaly so wrong. Books influence our values in insidious ways.
If this episode taught you anything it should be to ban any non Jewish literature from your daughters reading. I would definitely discuss what she’s already read & tell her that it’s against the Torah & you know see why non Jewish books should not be read.
This is your child’s neshoma you’re talking about & no amount of “good” non Jewish literature is worth endangering that for.

Yes. Thackeray, Tolstoy, and George Eliot have “influenced my values in insidious ways.” Also Bernard Malamud and Dina Rubina, who are pretty darn Jewish.

I know that people who think this way exist. But as for the “I was an avid reader before I became frum” bit.... Were you... really? Because if you were - if you truly appreciated good literature for what it’s worth - you would never have given it up.

amother

Copper

Wed, Dec 19 2018, 11:55 am

Forgetting about quality...just in quantity, for a truly avid reader, the frum books just aren't enough. As a kid, I could easily read 10 books or more a week, definitely at least 4 or 5 over a Shabbos.
I know there are more being published nowadays but looking at the ads in the weekly magazines, they are still advertising the same 10- 15 books since before Chanukah. I would have finished them all by now and would be waiting with no reading material until the next publishing blitz ( probably not until Pesach time)

saw50st8

Wed, Dec 19 2018, 12:19 pm

I've read all the Rick Riordan books as has my 10 year old. The content doesn't bother me, but I live in a frum community that's accepting of gay people and transgender people (both exist in our broader community even if none go to my shul).

Magnus Chase series is heavy on transgender stuff. If it bothers you, you probably shouldn't have allowed the first two either because it's in the first two as well.

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 19 2018, 3:32 pm

momsrus wrote:

Not sure what you should do about the current situation you are in

But there are so many Jewish books out there. Why expose her to non Jewish?

My personal experience as a mother has been that there are not enough Jewish books out there, and the level of reading in the Jewish library/bookstore is insufficient for the average Jewish girl out there.

Hence the need to supplement reading with pre-approved, secular books.

amother

Brown

Wed, Dec 19 2018, 4:01 pm

sequoia wrote:

Honey, I read Tolstoy in Russian age 10. I gave up many things to be frum.
This is no sacrifice it’s a decision re my hashkafos. I’m an all or nothing person. My gashmius reflects my ruchnius.

urban gypsy

Wed, Dec 19 2018, 4:07 pm

salt wrote:

I have said and would say exactly this to my kids. I don't believe in censorship but I do believe in age-appropriateness and good taste.

I just wanted to add that while I am a huge fan of Common Sense Media (I use it daily for my children and myself) I would not take their reviews as literal facts. Read the reviews as well and maybe do a bit of research on other sites as well. I'm not sure if they get some sort of sponsorship funding from somewhere or they have lazy quality control or what, but sometimes they do make mistakes. There are tons of items there rated "good for families" but they are really not. Their information is valuable but just be careful and thorough.