Why do my kids need to help? why does e/o hav responsiblty?

amother

Peach

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 8:22 am

amother wrote:

I work in foster care. You can tell him that even the kids whose parents don't want them, do chores. "Our" kids do a lot more than most kids do at home.
Your son makes me really upset. If I was his mom, I wouldn't do his laundry, cook for him.. actually do anything for him. I can't stand entitled people. Does your husband treat you with respect? Where does he get those ideas from?
He says he's not your slave? You're not his slave!
We have kids who come from the worst of homes. Where you could really say: OMG I feel so bad, I'll just do it. Nope, they also do their stuff.

I would never do this. I would never withhold from him unless he was spoiled. He is hardworking when it comes to schoolwork....he does listen/behave in school and hes just acting like a typical child who doesnt want to help because he would rather do other things. Im not looking for actions but only for logical answers to convince him logically. He still does what he has to do, but I like to come up with logical explanations. And, he doesnt see me as his slave. A lot of kids dont realize how much a mom does. A lit of men dont even understand how hard we work.

amother

Peach

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 8:24 am

Zehava wrote:

I agree that since he’s being fresh and using twisted logic on you that logical consequences are the way to go. Don’t get into back n forth with him. He isn’t your equal.
Don’t pay for extras, and I mean any extras, he can work and make his own money.
Don’t cook anything especially for him, he can eat what you cook for the family. Don’t clean his room, don’t even allow the cleaning lady in there, he can clean it himself.
But the most important thing to remember is to be totally calm and in control. Don’t allow him to rile you up, because that’ll defeat the purpose. Be completely logical and matter-of-fact about the whole thing.

I would not do this. Im asking for a good response back. I am not riled up...he still does what he is required to do, but I do want to explain it to him logically.

amother

Peach

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 8:26 am

amother wrote:

So since he's being a bit of a stinker, I would give him his logic right back.

Yes, I choose to have him in the house, but I don't choose to give him food or let him use the washing machine. Does he like to be hungry and smelly? Yes I choose to want the house clean, and if he won't do it, then I choose not to send him to summer camp. Whatever "logic" you want, whatever things he likes that can possibly not be provided.

You need to find a way to clearly explain that things in life are not a given to anybody. And many things are a tradeoff. That kind of negotiation is often how we get needs fulfilled. Its a give and take. Like oh, honey can you take out the garbage. And dh does it because you don't like too, but then you make chopped liver (EWWW!!!) because he likes it and you like to please him in what he likes.

Thanks for this.

amother

Peach

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 8:35 am

little neshamala wrote:

OP there are plenty of logical answers I can give, but I really think we need the bigger picture before figuring out what to answer.
What is his relationship with you like in general? Do you get along/are you close or are you constantly bickering and engaged in a power of wills?

If its the former, id nicely have a chat, NOT in the moment when you need help, about how little people are raised to be bigger mentches, and how its a good midah to get used to helping out and pitching in.

If its the latter, I would totally drop it-for now- and focus on improving the relationship with the goal being that one day you can easily discuss responsibilities and expectations.

Remember to look at the bigger picture. You dont care so much about him picking up a broom this Friday, as much as you care that he grow up to be an emotionally nurtured, very mature young man who has terrific midos and looks to help out around his home (and future wife), because he has been conditioned to think of others and chipping in. That is your long term goal. If he is helping out bitterly right now, because hes being forced, youll have a clean house but youve accomplished nothing for the future...

Good luck!

Yes, my long term goal is to create someone who thinks of others...but at the same time even if we dont think of others...we need to take care of our responsibilities...if I just sit back and let him "off the hook" with doing no chores, then I would be creating a "bad" future dh like women here complain about who not only thinks about himself but wont think of all the responsibilities he must do....

On one hand, u are saying if we force the child to do chores, then he will be bitter....well, in my mind at least he will be used to taking care of responsibilities that he may not want to do instead of sitting on the couch watching tv while taking care of no household responsibilities becoming more entitled.

When children grow up, we cant always control how they will behave and if they will act selfish or...but if the son was used to being able to get away with not doing chores bec mom is afraid he will be bitter...then he will surely become someone who thinks its okay to not share in household responsibilities growing up...

Anyway, im not asking for what to do in terms of chores or no chores but im asking for logical explanations...because if I have a good logical expkanation besides what I explained above(my son says I dont want to help now but ill help my wife in future)....then it would help him understand even if he doesnt agree..

amother

Peach

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 8:43 am

penguin wrote:

I would be more concerned about my relationship with my child than the chores getting done. If you have a good relationship he will want to help you.

Not everyone can do this, but I always took more cleaning help than I could afford in order not to have to ask my kids for help. They ended up helping very willingly because they weren't required to help.

Saying "if u have a good relationship, he will want to help you" makes it seem like life is so simple. Well, maybe you have never had challenging children. And, naturally, we are inherently lazy, so even those who may want to help their moms also have a yetzer hora telling them to want to sit and do their hobbies instead of helping. I mean, if it were so simple, does this apply to marriage too? Are u saying that if a dh loves his wife, he will want to help her?? No, life is not that simple. Many dhs love their wives but are also tired from work or are used to being lazy(not doing chores when they are younger...) so they dont contribute to household responsibilities and leave it all to wives..

If it worked for you, well then, you cant even begin to understand where im coming from.. ..

amother

Peach

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 8:45 am

amother wrote:

OP, my kid said the same to me at around age 11. Talking was useless, even at a calm time. And the next child started copying the older one.

I decided my child was mature enough to do their own laundry. All children at that age are now taught laundry technique and courtesy rules for sharing a washer and dryer. I don't touch their dirty laundry basket, but I model courtesy: if there's clean stuff in the washer, I'll hang it or put the load in the dryer as needed.

I realized the kids saw me as a personal housekeeper. I adjusted accordingly. Now I make 1 dinner for all, I decluttered the house and limited toys out so cleaning is quick. I use the time I gained for a walk around the block if necessary. I make time to spend with each child. I cut down on extras so there was time to be present and do the mothering part of my job as well as have time for myself. I needed to reduce my resentment so I could build our relationship.

If a child asked for something when I was in the middle of working, eg. a library book or pizza on a Sunday afternoon, I replied "As soon as I'm done here we can go to the library. If you help, the job will go faster." I make sure to follow through.

DH and I also decided it's our duty to our future son and daughter in laws to set the example of respect. We are careful to praise all help loudly in front of the other parent, and say thank you and repeat that we all are part of the team. We also don't say no when our spouse asks for help.

It's been working out ok so far. When someone says they're not our slave, we ignore it and move on, expecting them to do the requested job.

Edited to reflect others' responses to OP.

Thanks for this.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 9:30 am

Long story.
My dd is a highschool girl 12th grade. My dd has improved. But still occasionally says you dont do anything for the house and arguing. Many times, if she comes with a school story or a random fact and starts a talk but I put a sentence or two of my own, from positive to neutral or negative she starts talking nasty. Like its a one way talk only. If I stop working motse shabbes she stops. Last Thursday Friday she was away. Then the whole week I did not ask anything. I didnt need badly. Comes thursday I explained I need major help and why - an important guest. She did half. I was also working hard on another part of the house. She saw. I asked again with details of what else is needed. And I said do as if your friend is coming. You will not leave a pile of clean laundry on the kitchen table...I was mad. Father allegedly told her to help more and she refused. I cannot prove, I didnt hear but I cannot be choshed. But I felt that he doesnt do enough for the situation. He was and is her buddy and she used to run and sit next to him when I chalenged her in the past to her homework or any thing but he does not insist she go back to her mandatory school study/essay thing not then and not even after a while of sitting with him. I felt
like he is disturbing many many many times. Just being panie bratte at the wrong time and not helping her pick herself up and try again. Well he can be her friend a few minutes but after some 10 minutes of running away from mom and responsability he should encourage her to resume. But he didnt. It happened tens and tens of times like this in the past.

Friday afternoon I said to her: the way you argue with me on opinions coments stories although its better it can use a lot of improvement and when I asked for help last night you did only half. With my parents I did what I was told like a lemele. Just know that if it continues, when you get engaged bli neder I will do the mandatory but the extras I may chose to skip specially the extras that are more a mother daughter friendship type of thing, extra fun things. I gave an example of what I did with her sisters. If you continue the way you are now I will not do certain things I did with your sisters when they were engaged. (In the past she did not want to lift a finger like a 20 minute help when my couples came for weekday supper so I told her with reminders that the more times she refuses the more time I will refuse to invite her for weekday suppers so she improved but it took a while.) Anyway going back to this Friday she apologized a few times what seemed sincere and we had a very peacefull friendly Friday & Shabbos. I let my DH know what I told her. Friday afternoon he wanted she buy something and she didnt want because it meant she needs to put on socks and shoe. He was almost giving up. I said she will go like a lemele even if she doesnt like. She smiled from ear to ear. She ran to do it when she heard this. I told my husband to stop being mevater on the little we ask. We give her outlets and ample time for friends, and all she wants and needs and its time to stop with the afluenza. I expect she may fail but she will have reminders again and chances to change again. She is much older than your son tho. She is 12th grade. Im thinking maybe she needs meds?

Last edited by amother on Sun, Jan 20 2019, 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total

1untamedgirl

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 9:34 am

amother wrote:

Thanks for responding but maybe I was unclear. However, I am not talking about more chores besides his regular chores. I am just talking about regular chores, not extra!!

Ok, so he is doing his chores, that is not the issue. You are bothered by his smartas logic so you can try to explain systems to him. For example, he goes to school every day-- his job there is to be a student, learn, do his work, follow the rules, etc his rebbes job is to teach the class, the principal makes sure that things run smoothly, the administration makes sure that the school can stay in business, etc. There are lots of people involved in order to make sure that the system runs like a well oiled machine as one person cannot do everything. Same with a hospital- there are the nurses, doctors, administration, cleaners, etc. And at supermarkets where there are the owners, the cashiers, the delivery guys, the cleaning lady, the shelf stacker, etc. Everyone chips in and does their job in order for things to run smoothly and efficiently.
Same with family system. Sure, you own the house but you can't possibly run it on your own and you need everyone in the family to pitch in for everything to run smoothly. Sometimes you hire a cleaning lady to do heavy cleaning and sometimes you hire a plumber to fix the bathroom but the kids who live there also have to pitch in and do some chores in order for things to run smoothly otherwise, you would run yourself ragged and then won't be able to do anything and the whole system would shut down. Surely he doesn't want that and would be open to pitching in without whining about it but maybe let him decide which chores he wants to do so that he wouldn't feel "forced" to do things he doesn't like.

little neshamala

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 11:45 am

amother wrote:

OP, you were answering things that I never said. Please re-read my post carefully. I never said you shouldnt force him to do chores because he will become bitter, and we're scared of our kids being bitter.

Of course we need to make our kids do certain things whether they like it or not! We as the parents determine what they should do, and they as the kids, do not decide whether or not to listen.

Having said that, please re-read my post. The right approach really really does depend on what your relationship with your child now is like... (can you elaborate on that?) I really do not agree with any poster who automatically says "do abc or xyz" as though other factors dont count, and a cookie cutter approach regarding responsibilities can be applied to every situation.

amother

Peach

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 12:03 pm

1untamedgirl wrote:

Thanks.

amother

Peach

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 12:17 pm

little neshamala wrote:

Thanks for responding. I reread ur post and I was responding to the last paragraph about u saying helping and being bitter...

I understand that u are saying that its not a "one size fits all" approach because u are saying that the relationship I have with him makes a difference. I'm not disagreeing with that, but only focusing on the relationship while letting a child sit and relax while everyonelse is helping for shabbos or
...that in my opinion will not create a sense of wanting to help wen married. And, I'm not the type of strict mom that makes it all about the helping...

This is only about our discussions that besides for telling him we all must pitch in...I, personally, want to have a "better" way to explain it to him that makes a lot of sense. I wrote here to see if someone has a better way to explain it, not because he doesn't listen, not because he is trying to test me or..but more because I want to explain it better almost like when I'm explaining a word to my younger kids, I ask him because he has a great way to break it down for little kids, so too here, I've seen many women explain concepts well, so I was asking for a better explanation so that I feel better about how I'm explaining it.

amother

Peach

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 12:25 pm

amother wrote:

I'm sorry u are going through this with ur dd. I can't tell u if she needs meds, but I can't relate bec. My situation is different. However, I know some here suggesting withholding extras which is what u keep threatening her with. Personally, I think your constant threats are making her extra bitter....and she may not really appreciate everything until she gets married and has to do everything herself...

amother

Orange

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 12:52 pm

Amother orchid, you have gotten into a huge power struggle with a 17 or 18 yr old, virtually adult dd.
That is a huge mistake.
If I were her, I would not want to come for 'couple suppers' after I got married. In her place, I would just say, no need for favors.

Now you may be right, she may be lazy and not doing her part. But that doesnt mean you should be getting her to help like a 'lemele', whatever that is, at the snap of your fingers.

It also seems like you do a lot around the house (hosting, guests, suppers), and expect her to help quite a bit. A lot of this help is for hosting others - guests and married siblings. Maybe you should host less if it stresses you out so much that you need to threaten your dd with a damaged future relationship.

Zehava

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 2:37 pm

amother wrote:

I’ve been trying to come up with an appropriate response to that post without calling her names I’d rather not utter. Been waiting for someone to put it into rational thoughts. It makes me so mad just to read. I hope this girl marries a great guy who will treat her like a queen.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Jan 20 2019, 10:45 pm

You are entitled to your opinion. This girl I know who acted like my daughter and got away from doing minimal chores, she used to cry at age 16 like an 8 year old to get away from helping a bit. She got married and demands her husband to work like a dog because she must have everything in the world.
I ask mamesh so little from her. In Williamsburg all couples come in the begining for supper and I ask her 20minutes of total house work a day and you call it all kinds of names? Whatever. Today I woke up with a terrible health issue (temporary BH_its getting a bit better) I told my daughter I didnt get a chance to do the house but dont worryI will do in a slower pace thruout the day. You judt give me 20 minutes of anything. She was very happy and thanked me and was in a good mood. I dont think Im doing anything wrong. She was in danger of being Mrs Entitled and giving horrible answers for months and years and I decided to talk to her openly.