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Advice re unmarried sister and mother.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:42 am
urban gypsy wrote:
Thanks so much for replying. I just can't fathom this level of waste on your mom's part. Taking them away and saying she will give them back contingent on xyz, I could understand. But throwing multiple cell phones in the garbage is completely bizarre! Does she know that your sister gets them from you?


I assume she does know because I had texted my sister on those phones and she probably checked the text messages. She's not a wasteful person and not too controlling either. She just is more old school Chassidish style and believes that things like telephones, computers, etc. are horrific and mean your child will go down the drain. She occassionaly checks our drawers, pocket books, etc. but once we're married she totally lives and lets lives.
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amother




Purple


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:47 am
Omg OP, your mom checks the kids pocketbooks and drawers but you say she's not controlling??? She's either controlling or sick or both! A mom has no business going through her adult/teen kids medical possessions. Kids are allowed to have some privacy.
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sequoia




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:55 am
Once you’re married she lives and lets live???!

Well she doesn’t have much of a choice when you’re in your own home, does she?

Are you saying it’s awesome she doesn’t come to your house and go through your and your husband’s drawers?

Do you truly not see the utter craziness?
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 11:59 am
sequoia wrote:
Maybe I shouldn’t comment because the cultural differences are too vast
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amother




Yellow


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:00 pm
sequoia wrote:
Once you’re married she lives and lets live???!

Well she doesn’t have much of a choice when you’re in your own home, does she?

Are you saying it’s awesome she doesn’t come to your house and go through your and your husband’s drawers?

Do you truly not see the utter craziness?


I mean to say that she doesn't comment on what we wear, what we name our kids, when we should come to her for Y"T and more like many other Chassidish parents even when we know she disagrees. We're her responsibility until we're married although we pretty much are on one page hashkafically.
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watergirl




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:31 pm
amother wrote:
I have a sister who is a kallah and definitely loves to talk on the phone. Our mother made a rule of no calls passed 11pm because her friends were calling and waking people up and my sister would talk all night discussing shtissim and our father agreed it was not a good example for the rest of the child. In the past, if it was work related our mother never had an issue with us talking even well into the wee hours of the night.
Now she unplugs the phone and disconnects it after 11pm because of my sister and her friends and their calls. We're chassidish and having a cell phone as an unmarried girl is not accepted for us. My sister is also on the same page hashkafically so she agrees it is not a good idea for her to have a cell phone.
I have a lot of extra phones from DH's employees and my sister has taken a few of them. I'm not here to parent her so I don't say anything. Our mother eventually finds these phones or hears my sister talking and takes them away. My sister asked me for another phone and I'm not sure if I should give it to her or just tell her to ask someone else.
Our mother has never confronted me about it because although she probably knows it is me, our mother does not believe in parenting married children and wouldn't tell me what to do but I feel it's not respectful of me to do something openly I know she does not agree with even if she didnt say anything yet.
Anyways, WWYD - get your sister another phone, tell your mother, ignore?
TIA


OP, your mother's rationale as you've presented it is all over the place and dont align with the same issue. Your mother does not allow children in the house to have cell phones because:

1) Friends were calling, waking people up all night
2) The conversation was shtus; work related conversations at 1am would be just fine. Just
not shrussim.
3) your father felt it was a bad example for the other kids
4)Old school (from a later thread) Chassidim dont agree with cell phones for kids on a
hashkafic basis.
5) Your sister agrees, yet she wants one anyways. She sounds like a teenager, which I
assume she is. That sounds developmentally appropriate to me. Teens are fickle like that.

If your parents are not giving her one real reason not to have the phone, and their reasons are all over the place and are even contradictory, can you blame her for seeing hypocrisy here? That's a really bad thing for kids to see and leaves many mixed messages.

You take phones that belong to your husbands business (work expense) and use it for personal.

Your mother goes and throws phones into the trash. This has happened more than once.

You give her a new phone each time. Are you sure this isn't gezel? On your mothers part and also on your part, and on your husband's part? Who is paying the bill for the phones? You haven't answered that yet.

The matter of control or not control is not your place. Forget all else; if your sister has issues with the going through the drawers and whatever else, she can move out now. Thats not the issue here IMO.

Why would you get your sister another phone, knowing it will end up in the trash? Please explain why she cant go and buy her own track-phone from 711 and risk her own money? She has no skin in the game here. You keep giving her toys for her to have thrown out. When my kids lose their things, I realize that they dont want it badly enough and dont buy it for them again. Once my kids buy something themselves, it becomes intrinsically more valuable to them. With this phone, its between her and your mom. But if she really wants one, she should be the one to value it.

And if I were your husband, I would be royally ticked.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:34 pm
watergirl wrote:

You give her a new phone each time. Are you sure this isn't gezel? On your mothers part and also on your part, and on your husband's part? Who is paying the bill for the phones? You haven't answered that yet. And if I were your husband, I would be royally ticked.


To clarify this: DH and I are paying the bills. We have our own business. DH has no issue with giving her the phones. I don't want to give her ideas for obtaining a phone, but if she gets one from my house I'm not necessarily going to fight it...
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urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:36 pm
amother wrote:
I don't want to give her ideas for obtaining a phone, but if she gets one from my house I'm not necessarily going to fight it...


That doesn't make any sense. You are literally giving her the phones.
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watergirl




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 12:50 pm
amother wrote:
To clarify this: DH and I are paying the bills. We have our own business. DH has no issue with giving her the phones. I don't want to give her ideas for obtaining a phone, but if she gets one from my house I'm not necessarily going to fight it...


Thanks. So why are you and DH so ok with Giving her something that costs a lot of money just for it to be thrown in the garbage? Would you take $300 cash and throw it away?
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 1:09 pm
People are wondering why daughter can't be respectful...not wake up people...

Don't you realize this is a power struggle?

Girl wants freedom...mom wants control...its a fight...daughter outsmarted, fighting moms control....mom gets mad that girl is overriding her....

Where did this method of chinuch get her....
The other daughter is on the internet....even she was not allowed even a flip phone till she got married.
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 1:13 pm
Seqoa your wondering why shes not texting to keep quiet....if mom is not allowing her a kosher phone with nothing only being able to dial & talk...just like a landline without the wire....then texting is for sure assur in tis household....its the worse of evils....in such a house/community.

Texting is a bigger Chet than talking.
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nechamashifra




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 2:08 pm
amother wrote:
I assume she does know because I had texted my sister on those phones and she probably checked the text messages. She's not a wasteful person and not too controlling either. She just is more old school Chassidish style and believes that things like telephones, computers, etc. are horrific and mean your child will go down the drain. She occassionaly checks our drawers, pocket books, etc. but once we're married she totally lives and lets lives.


What? I can't think of a single scenario where it would be justified to violate someone's basic privacy like this. This is kind of like telling your kids "I think you are untrustworthy and therefore I need to spy on you"
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sirel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:03 pm
amother wrote:
To clarify this: DH and I are paying the bills. We have our own business. DH has no issue with giving her the phones. I don't want to give her ideas for obtaining a phone, but if she gets one from my house I'm not necessarily going to fight it...



Does this mean she's taking phones from your house without asking you? because that's what is sounds like.
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urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:07 pm
sirel wrote:
Does this mean she's taking phones from your house without asking you? because that's what is sounds like.


I went back to reread and initially OP says the sister "has taken phones from her house" but then says her DH is okay with paying the bills and "giving her the phones" so OP which is it? Is your sister stealing them from your house, or is she asking for the phones and you are giving them to her?
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finallyamommy




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 3:24 pm
I don't have any advice, but I feel like this should be moved to a members-only section.
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amother




Sienna


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 4:01 pm
OP,
I think they missing key here is COMMUNICATION. You talk to your sister openly, find out if she’s feeling stifled /feels she really needs a phone. Tell her u fully understand her. Explain that you think her need for her own phone, at an age when she is about to get married, is very reasonable. Also explain that you don’t want to be disrespectful and go behind your moms back. Encourage her to speak respectfully to mom. Teach her to resolve a conflict like the adult she now is.
Coach /practice with her what to say, “Mommy, I understand you and Tatty don’t like cell phones.... I’m iy”h getting married soon, which means you trust me to be married & running a home. Please respect my decision. I feel I need to have a phone. Please don’t make me feel I need to go behind your back.... I love you and respect you.... This is something I feel I really need though.”
Ok perhaps some more thought can be put into the actual words, based on your mom and sisters personality.
How do u think your mom would respond to such a conversation? Is it in her world to bend, to be flexible?


Last edited by amother on Wed, Mar 13 2019, 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Feb 07 2019, 4:14 pm
that's literally in-sane. Non sane
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