College admissions cheating scheme

1untamedgirl

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 5:35 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Exactly, and the same with sports scholarships...why should being good at throwing a ball entitle you to free education and entrance into colleges???

because college is a business and they are essentially using these athletes to make money so its only smart to give these athletes a free education while they are at it..

Last edited by 1untamedgirl on Tue, Mar 12 2019, 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

DrMom

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 5:42 pm

1untamedgirl wrote:

https://today.citadel.edu/economics-college-sports-college-football-make-money/

These are the top 25 schools that make the most money from their sports games-- https://www.businessinsider.co.....16-10

The parents also pay for hotel rooms and restaurants and whatnot all of it benefiting the entire town as well. Now if you only have poor people attending then the profits would go down tremendously as the parents wouldnt be able to afford to pay for anything extra so the school could potentially go out of business. That wouldn't be good for the school now, would it?

Oh, college sports is a *huge* money-maker.

But not because parents are buying massively overpriced tickets, which was your claim.

Lots of people attend college sports: students, faculty, alumni, locals. It's not a bunch of player's parents going to watch their kids, like it's a little league game.

Last edited by DrMom on Tue, Mar 12 2019, 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

Orchid

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 5:43 pm

WhatFor wrote:

Anyone following this?

I feel bad for the kids of those implicated. I haven't seen enough detail to know if they even knew about it or necessarily were involved. And even if they were, how's a High School kid to know right and wrong if their own parents were teaching them to do the wrong thing?

What's going to happen to kids implicated in this? Are colleges going to throw them out if they're already attending?

I know they are saying the kids didn't know, and for now no kids are being charged, but in many of the cases, the kids got in on athletic teams that they weren't qualified for, and then immediately claimed injury so as to get out of the team. I really strongly doubt those kids weren't in on the scheme. Or kids having no idea they didn't actually take the SAT but had someone do it in their name. C'mon.

1untamedgirl

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 5:50 pm

DrMom wrote:

Oh, college sports is a *huge* money-maker.

But not because parents are buying massively overpriced tickets, which was your claim.

I made no such claim. I specifically used phrases such as "I'm sure" and "presumably" and then said "if not then..".

Lol. I am not sure what youre argument is. These colleges make millions from sports including tickets that parents/alumni buy. And if they are going to get rid of their rich clientele then not sure who would even bother going to these games as the poor wouldnt be able to afford it and the school would be history. But this thread is about cheating to get into college so none of this is relevant to begin with.

1untamedgirl

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 5:56 pm

mirror wrote:

If you're white, it's very very hard to get admitted to a top college. Colleges typically lower their standards for minorities, though. If they were minorities they had a better chance without a bribe.

Then they should have used all that money to sue for discrimination and/or get rid of affirmative action instead of committing criminal activity and bribe their way into college.

ora_43

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 5:58 pm

mirror wrote:

I don't want to get this into a discussion of racism, because that's a banned topic here, but - come on, this is not at all true.

I know people who've worked in admission at top colleges in the states. Colleges absolutely do not "lower their standards" for minorities. Any minority student who gets in, deserves to be there.

What does sometimes happen is that if there are 10,000 qualified candidates, and only 2,000 spots, the university will give slight preference to candidates who help fill their diversity goals. This means racial diversity, but also all kinds of other diversity - a diverse range of languages spoken, a diverse range of skills (an oboe player if they mostly have violin players, and vice versa), etc.

It's fine to oppose affirmative action, but it's not right or fair to say that minority students at top schools haven't met the same absurdly high standards as everyone else.

1untamedgirl

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 6:06 pm

ora_43 wrote:

There are several lawsuits, including one in NY, that says otherwise but lets see what happens after discovery and trial..

SixOfWands

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 6:24 pm

1untamedgirl wrote:

There are several lawsuits, including one in NY, that says otherwise but lets see what happens after discovery and trial..

At least one of those lawsuit claims that if admissions were completely blind, 40% of admissions would be Asian, not 20%. So that sounds like some minorities are being discriminated against.

But that doesn't mean that the students aren't amply qualified. It may mean that a student who attends a school that doesn't offer as many AP classes may be admitted with a 3.9 GPA, while the average GPA is a 4.1, or that a kid from an inner city school with a 1520 on her SAT gets in over someone from Spence with a 1530. But all are clearly brilliant.

Schools view diversity as important. That means that they're a student from rural Nebraska has a better chance of being admitted to Harvard than a student from Cambridge Rinde and Latin with the same scores. And that both of them have a better chance of being admitted to UCLA than a student from YULA. For example, we know a student who was accepted at one of the top 5 schools in the country, in a very different geographic area, but rejected by lower-ranked schools closer to home. And it didn't help that at his school, 100s of kids -- many with SATs over 1500 -- apply to those schools.

Ravenclaw

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 6:34 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

It's as old as it gets. I don't see why affirmative action is better. They are not getting in by their own merit either. I'm not a racist at all, I just see it as both parties getting in to college not by their own merit. Am I wrong?

I think there should be affirmative action policies based on socioeconomic status as opposed to race.

SixOfWands

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 6:41 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

I think there should be affirmative action policies based on socioeconomic status as opposed to race.

Its diversity admissions, and there is.

I'm old, but I was definitely told to slip in to my essay that I would be first generation college, blue collar background.

SixOfWands

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 7:04 pm

Orchid wrote:

Here's how they tricked the kids re SATs or ACTs

https://slate.com/human-intere.....9pqNs

I certainly hope that these kids were warned before it hit the news. It would be awful to learn about this -- about yourself -- that way.

WhatFor

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 9:02 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Thanks six. I was about to come here to post about that. So sad.

ETA: I don't understand the concept of trying to pay your kid's way into an institution that they're otherwise unqualified for.

What do you think is going to happen when they have to keep up with kids who are far more advanced than they are? Or are you going to pay for their diploma too? Ugh never mind. I think I have my answer.

nchr

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 10:43 pm

1untamedgirl wrote:

Harvard's endowment fund is over $35 billion. Nowhere near ticket sales.

1untamedgirl

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 10:56 pm

nchr wrote:

Harvard's endowment fund is over $35 billion. Nowhere near ticket sales.

Whats your point? Want them to get rid of their sports program? Want them to get rid of their scholarships to minority students just to get rid of the rich legacy kids? I don't mind. Lets get rid of affirmative action as well as any preferential admissions for anyone including legacy kids and athletes. Let each and every student qualify for admission and pay their own way. No scholarships, no sports, no rich legacy kids, no affirmative action. Make it fair for everyone. Its a rich enough school, I mean with $35 billion and all so they should be able to make it work..

shyshira

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 10:58 pm

1untamedgirl wrote:

Harvard is a private school. They have some leeway in who they choose to educate.

nchr

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 11:00 pm

1untamedgirl wrote:

I don't believe in that at all. I am a believer in affirmative action, scholarships to minority students, scholarships to students who are deserving, legacy kids and athletes.

I was commenting on the fact that you wrote "Ticket sales for sports games are extremely profitable for colleges" in response to another amother accurately pointing out that "Charging parents to attend football games and charging students to pledge sororities and fraternities is *not* where universities make their money."

1untamedgirl

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 11:06 pm

nchr wrote:

I already responded to that, please read the my comments above for clarification on what I actually said.

1untamedgirl

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 11:09 pm

shyshira wrote:

Harvard is a private school. They have some leeway in who they choose to educate.

So they can definitely get rid of affirmative action, rich legacy kids, athletes, and scholarships for minorities and only accept students who actually qualify and can pay for it out of pocket. Running a school like that is expensive, how long do you think their $35 billion dollar endowment would last?

nchr

Tue, Mar 12 2019, 11:14 pm

mirror wrote:

This is an ignorant statement. # 1 there are non white, minority groups (such as Asians) who outperform whites academically. Also, minorities may not have had access to as many AP classes so their GPAs would be different than someone who took only APs. They also may have less access to certain extracurricular activities and a variety of other things. Minorities in top colleges generally deserve to be there. The few that "don't" are balanced out by the rich whites who buy their way in or who were accepted because their parents are on the board, etc.