Raising Decent Kids

Ravenclaw

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 7:38 pm

[title edited from “boys” to “kids”. Feel free to discuss both genders]

All these SB threads about husbands with unrealistic demands leaves me so frustrated.
I was just talking to my mother today, and she was saying that it surprised her when she witnessed a little boy being rude and the mom laughing it off with “boys will be boys “.

Personally I don’t think there is a more damaging saying that is so widespread and accepted nowadays.

Why do people let their boys get away with things that they wouldn’t allow their girls to say or do? Why don’t people teach their boys to help out at home? Why is a grown man demanding that his wife warm his supper for him when she is clearly busy? I know a man who won’t even make himself a peanut butter sandwich because he says his mother always prepared it for him. To these mothers—do you also not let your girls prepare their own PB sandwiches?

Boys need to be taught empathy, just as girls are. Of course, there are personality disorders, for which a parent is not to blame. But I am betting that half of these guys don’t have a disorder and simply think that they are the king of their home and should be served day and night by doting women because that is what they are used to.

Last edited by Ravenclaw on Wed, Apr 10 2019, 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

Seashell

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 7:46 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

All these SB threads about husbands with unrealistic demands leaves me so frustrated.
I was just talking to my mother today, and she was saying that it surprised her when she witnessed a little boy being rude and the mom laughing it off with “boys will be boys “.

Personally I don’t think there is a more damaging saying that is so widespread and accepted nowadays.

Why do people let their boys get away with things that they wouldn’t allow their girls to say or do? Why don’t people teach their boys to help out at home? Why is a grown man demanding that his wife warm his supper for him when she is clearly busy? I know a man who won’t even make himself a peanut butter sandwich because he says his mother always prepared it for him. To these mothers—do you also not let your girls prepare their own PB sandwiches?

Boys need to be taught empathy, just as girls are. Of course, there are personality disorders, for which a parent is not to blame. But I am betting that half of these guys don’t have a disorder and simply think that they are the king of their home and should be served day and night by doting women because that is what they are used to.

I feel the exact same way, it aggravates me to no end.
I also wonder who raised these wives to not know how to stand up to themselves, & who completely turn themselves into slaves as opposed to dignified wives.

Last edited by Seashell on Wed, Apr 10 2019, 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

Ravenclaw

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 7:48 pm

Seashell wrote:

I feel the exact same way, it aggravates me to know end.
I also wonder who raised these wives to not know how to stand up to themselves, & who completely turn themselves into slaves as opposed to dignified wives.

People like my neighbor who told me that if she had only one piece of chocolate she would give it to her son and tell her daughter that her brother learns Torah and she doesn’t so he deserves better.
I went on such a rant when she said that.

amother

Sienna

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 8:21 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

Ouch! you just hurt my eyes reading this.

amother

Orange

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 8:25 pm

I don't know that people are raising more decent girls than decent boys. The ones who put in the effort do it for both genders. I know so many women who must be nightmares as wives, I think we're just less exposed to the frustrations of the other half. Parents, your kids are more likely to emulate you than to listen to you. If you aren't living the life you want them to live, best of luck getting them to turn out the way you hope.

amother

Mustard

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 8:27 pm

As a mom of boys, I hate this question.

I plan to teach my boys good middos. But boys and girls are different with different needs. In our community, boys need to either earn a lot of money or be top learners to do well in life.

Girls can get married and expect to be taken care of financially. And often they do. But boys have to be outstanding to be successful. They have a lot more stress. It's very different.

There are plenty of bad wives who are selfish and don't take care of their family, expecting their husbands to finance their shopping trips and babysitting and cleaning help. And on the parallel website abbafather.com you can see all the men's complaints.

DVOM

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 8:50 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

Oh wow. Just wow. I mean... wow. That is just revolting. I'm speechless.

Now its just chocolate. Who cares about chocolate. But what about when the little boy grows up? You better believe that when that little boy grows up, marries, has a baby and that baby is crying in the middle of the night, that bigger boy will put his needs first. After all, he needs to go learn Torah in the morning. His wife 'just' has to take care of the kid, the house, go to work... Doesn't he 'deserve' more sleep?

My son and I were baking cookies tonight, and his friend from accross the street asked if she could join us. I watched him take care of her: got her a chair, a drink, a spoon, gave her first pick of the baking 'jobs' (adding the eggs is the 'best job' for some reason!), searched for the 'best' cookie to give her when it came out of the oven. Thank god my boys have thier dad as an example of how a good man behaves.

L25

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 8:54 pm

[quote="amother [ Mustard ]"]

[Girls can get married and expect to be taken care of financially. And often they do. But boys have to be outstanding to be successful. They have a lot more stress. It's very different.]

personally I see a lot of working mothers. To say that the average girl can expect to be taken care of financially doesn't match up with what I see in real life. Thank G-d I'm a SAHM but I realize that I'm incredibly lucky and don't take it for granted. I have no idea how my friends manage. I think there's a lot of stress on both. Its not a competition and we need to do our best to raise our children to be competent metches whatever the gender.

SuperWify

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 8:59 pm

A big problem is that girls ARE taught that their husbands are much better then them because they learn...

I remember a teacher telling us how we won’t come up to our husbands toes because of the Torah they learn.

I remember another teacher telling us that if our husbands were digging gold we’d never bother him to stop and hold the baby no matter how much help we need. How dare some woman bother their DH’s while they learn?

I’m all for kollel as long as it works on both ends but I’m sick and tired of watching so many Shmatte wives collapsing.

And it’s not just kollel. I know many men today that still very strongly believe that as long as they are making money they don’t have to do anything at home including having a relationship or even helping with the kids. It’s after all a “woman’s job”.

Sad 😞

amother

Jetblack

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 9:20 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

Well to combat that, my Ben Torah husband would give his last chocolate to me.

Those poor children.

Ravenclaw

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 9:20 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

You are right. I will edit the title and we can discuss both.
I was starting this thread from my narrow view of the situation, but you are 100% right.

amother

Jetblack

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 9:33 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Girls can get married and expect to be taken care of financially. And often they do. But boys have to be outstanding to be successful. They have a lot more stress. It's very different.

Not anymore. Most women work.

Women go through a lot! Pregnancy, childbirth, nursing etc.

Men and women both have their things. Silly to compare.

forgetit

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 9:35 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

I think all of us here agree that we don't want to give that message and I wouldn't want to express it this way. However, and I don't know if this holds true universally, but where I'm coming from, girls get many extras by default and I need to be mindful things about giving the boys extras too. Ex. my girls have a lot more vac from school than the boys and I take them out, which means I treat them to an outing, splurging on extras, stepping in for ice cream, etc. There are also school productions my girls go too, and the boys don't. Boys in my community also have longer school days. My boys are set up for a more intense schedule.
While I don't want to throw things in my girls face, and I don't want to entitle my boys, when they get that super expensive bike, or whatever that the girls don't get, and the girls complain, I remind them all of the above. And when the boys complain about the 'girls privileges' I remind them about their privileges.
Then there are things like a siyum, whic, while the playing rules are different, I can honor the same way. The girls might make on tehillim, or chumash that took them months to complete in school, and the boys siyum will be on sefer mishnayos that involved a lot more work. The 'celebration' though, will be the same bec. each one is an accomplishment for said child.
Your neighbor might have that thought but something got lost someplace in the conveying department.
Honestly, as a girl/woman I always felt/feel that I got the better part of the deal.

amother

Green

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 10:43 pm

Because we grew up hearing that our olam habbah is gotten only thru a husband's Torah learning... great so nothing we do counts? 🙄

Or the teachers who will never ever disturb their husband's learning for childcare or household help.
Etc.

And that is why there are ppl like my neighbor who went out to a simcha worrying about what chaos she will come home to. Her husband was "babysitting" but he had no idea how to put them to bed or care for them properly while she was away.

How is that ok in any way?!

amother

Magenta

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 11:26 pm

I haven’t heard that saying. I live on a yeshivish ‘older’ neighborhood in Lakewood where derech eretz is important to almost all the families.
At a Shul simcha boys must wait to sit until all adults are sitting. Wait to take food.
They go in groups before Shabbos to shul to sweep, vacuum, put on tablecloth.
Boys help neighbors shovel walk, carry in grocery, clean car for pesach, now grass of single or older neighbors for no money.
When my boys are bored they bake or cook or clean. They know every night before pesach they have a job before going to sleep. They also babysit and watch younger siblings if needed. And neighborhood families are the same.

Don’t get me wrong they still play ball. Ride bikes. Build club houses and make messes. And get into tons of trouble. But at the end of the day they are responsible for the equipment and messes and have to put things back how they were
Personally I also work on empathy. In some ways my kids have more then the neighbor. We discuss not discussing trips or gifts or events (which aren’t big at all just more then others) so that no one feels bad. And being excited when others have less or more exciting news. The kids pick it up quickly.

At the end of the day I can only daven they grow up to be a mntch and emulate the fathers they are.

amother

Pumpkin

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 11:54 pm

How to raise kids today with derech eretz/ mentshlechkeit/ empathy / compassion?

Have derech eretz. Live according to your values. Discuss your values when dating to find a partner who shares them. Work on yourself through life. Make mistakes and apologize, even to your kids. Dont accept bad behavior by others, dont mock those who act like mentschen. Try to do what's right especially if it's hard or unpopular. Talk about these challenges with your kids.

Kids learn right from wrong from their parents. No matter how they act, your kids are not done growing into their adult selves yet. They're watching you.

...and daven.

Ravenclaw

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 11:56 pm

You imas talking about teachers...
I just remembered a story. Our 12th grade teacher told us a whole story about how she was so exhausted and overwhelmed and had been looking forward to going to a ladies night out to the local play for weeks. Finally the night came and her babysitter cancelled on her. This teacher described her inner turmoil and conflict... and how she has such a nisayon to ask her husband to “babysit” , but bh in the end she didn’t go to the play so that her husband could go learn in shul.
The story never sat right with me. I wondered why her husband couldn’t just learn for one night at the kitchen table at home?