‘Just wait till you have kids’

amother

Wine

Thu, May 02 2019, 11:31 pm

Op I feel you. In my mother in laws eyes I have all the time in the world
and possibly I’m lazy too who knows?!? I have three kids and work full time. I have two sister in laws around my age who have seven kids and don’t work but clearly they are so much busier and overwhelmed then me. I also have a younger sister in law who works extremely part time and has two kids under 2.5 so clearly she is also way busier and more overwhelmed then me too. Whenever my mil asks me anything she also prefaces that she can’t ask a diff person because they are so busy etc. feel free to ask me favors but don’t excuse yourself first....

amother

Ecru

Thu, May 02 2019, 11:36 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

No. I don't do that - for exactly this reason.
If you're 6 years old and you're embarrassed because you don't know how to tie your shoes, you're entitled to see that as a crisis. And no "real" crisis should be able to take that away from you.

I agree with you. I'm not arguing that point that its not validating someone's experience. I'm just saying those comments are not really insensitive or hurtful either. It's just a neutral response thrown out frequently in conversations. It's not the proper response, but it's not a negative response either.

amother

Pink

Thu, May 02 2019, 11:40 pm

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

But that's the point. How is "Just wait till you have kids" nosy and condescending.? The only thing I can see it as being is not validating.

If it would be known that the OP has infertility issues, then I can see it. But otherwise, how is any different than responding "small kids, small worries - big kids, big worries"?

Both those statements are, in fact, considered condescending by most people. It's not a validation issue. You are literally telling people that you know something better than they possibly could when you say stuff like that. That's pretty much the definition of condescending.

amother

Papaya

Fri, May 03 2019, 3:49 am

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

Its not a different from saying "small kids, small worries". They are both condescending and not very nice things to say. Please dont say either of them to anyone

amother

Olive

Fri, May 03 2019, 7:28 am

A lot of it is in the tone. If it is said in a superior, all knowing tone, then yes, it is condescending. If it is said in a commiserating kind of tone, then it might even be able to be somewhat validating.
But, in my experience, people who say these kind of things are usually just trying to trivialize the other person. Basically a lot of people like to complain how hard they have it.

PurpleandGold

Fri, May 03 2019, 8:58 am

The person who responded "wait until you have kids" was feeling invalidated and misunderstood by someone else in her life about how hard she's working, so she was asking for validation from YOU. Not fair, as you asked for validation first, but your words actually triggered HER. In turn she asked for validation, denying you the validation you asked for, and triggered YOU.

I have found that people trained to be empathetic and not only think of themselves in a conversation are rare. So I don't expect it. I expect my comments to be met with pleas for validation from the other person. So that is what I anticipate, and I just validate. "Wait until you have kids!" "Oh, I can just imagine! You mothers are true super heros for doing it all WiTH kids!"

If I want validation, I go to the few people I know who have been trained in mature social intelligence, with skills like vulnerability, empathy, and validation. These are truly skills, and if you were lucky enough to be taught these skills by your mother or father, then you were blessed! Most people just weren't taught, and it usually doesn't come naturally.

ora_43

Fri, May 03 2019, 8:59 am

On the flip side, OP, you have to be careful who you vent to.

In general, people aren't so sympathetic to complaints from people who - objectively speaking - have it easier than them in a certain area.

I agree that objective and subjective experiences can be wildly different. Like, someone who was earning $50,000 a month is going to find it a lot harder to live on $5,000/month than someone who used to earn $2,500/month will find it to suddenly start living on $4,000/month.

That still doesn't mean the guy earning $4,000/month will be sympathetic if the formerly-rich guy starts complaining to him about how hard it is with just $5,000/month. If he's a really special, empathetic person he'll hear where he's coming from and offer a sympathetic ear and some advice. But if he says "haha, you should try $4,000" he's not being rude - just not particularly empathetic.

I'm not saying don't complain about Pesach cleaning to people with more kids/ younger kids/ longer hours at work/ etc. But it does help to end with, "I don't know how you do it" so that they don't feel like you're oblivious to their difficulties.

mig100

Fri, May 03 2019, 9:12 am

PurpleandGold wrote:

Great post!

amother

Fri, May 03 2019, 10:15 am

PurpleandGold wrote:

Very good points you’ve made, I appreciate this perspective.

amother

Fri, May 03 2019, 10:22 am

ora_43 wrote:

I hear that, but no one who made these remarks was someone I’m super close with. In one instance it was around Purim and I mentioned I was nervous to clean for pesach for the first time. In another instance someone asked how I was doing and I just said, ‘good, but Pesach cleaning has been challenging this year,’ or something like that. I just want to add that I’m not upset with these people, I don’t think they meant any harm. But after a couple times of hearing it it caused me a lot of pain because of a number of things going on in my life.

Plus, my entire point is that we can never know ‘objectively’ who has it easier, which is my issue with people making these comments. When someone says that they’re having a hard time, to assume that you’re having it harder and express such a sentiment is rude. Maybe it’s true, who knows...but you’re not Gd, you don’t know, so don’t say anything.

Chayalle

Fri, May 03 2019, 10:34 am

I am blessed to have 3 children and SIF. Hope it's okay for me to say that without hurting anyone. But OP, I totally have felt that people with no IF and larger families sometimes think that those with either no children or less children have, by default, less challenges than they do. These are all myths, BTW.

*more finances. um, fertility is expensive. And having a smaller family does not mean less expenses than a bigger one. I know people with 8 healthy children vs. people with 1 or 2 children with medical conditions, which is more expensive? People with small families are not immune to large expenses that can be greater than those with a family.

*more time. People with IF spend alot of time on their situation. People with smaller families can have situations that take alot of their time. Plus they often don't have older children to help with younger ones, or children of same age ranges keeping each other company.

I could go on with other examples, but I think these two will suffice for now.

It blows my mind that someone could make that kind of comment to someone without children. It definitely is insensitive (even though I personally, generally try to take insensitive comments I've gotten from well-meaning people with a grain of salt, knowing they don't mean to hurt me...it's still insensitive.)

soap suds

Fri, May 03 2019, 11:07 am

Am I the only one who thinks that making Pesach for the first time, even without kids is harder than doing it for say the 10th time with kids? I'm saying this as someone who's done both. Yes, I do have kids and no cleaning help, but I think having the experience, and having figured out how to do things efficiently, definitely makes it easier than it was the first time when I had no idea where to start and what to do.