Please explain it to me, another mmr post

southernbubby

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:55 pm

Schools often have infants coming for early intervention and day care. Children with chronic illnesses are often coming with support staff despite needing medical intervention throughout the school day.
My grandchildren went to school with a transplant patient.
Basically the anti-vax position is that the medically fragile schoolmate is not their problem. With that attitude they wonder why they are being excluded.

gamanit

Sun, May 05 2019, 11:42 pm

Pregnancy actually significantly lowers immunity (in order to protect the baby from the mother's immune system accidentally turning against it) so even if a woman has immunity from the measles it'll be greatly decreased. Whether she actually had measles as a child or got the shot it is possible for her to get it again (although probably a weaker case than someone with no immunity at all). People forget that immunity isn't really a black and white thing but more like a sliding scale. Even if someone's titres come back negative it's likely that they still have some memory cells that'll help them beat the measles faster than someone who was never vaccinated. In addition someone with positive titres can still get an exposure reaction that while not dangerous can be unpleasant. Either way this measles issue is getting way out of hand.

amother

Bisque

Mon, May 06 2019, 12:45 am

gamzehyaavor wrote:

Benign? I don't know. talk to my daughters infectious disease doctor. she said there are plenty of patients on ventilators in their picu.
Talk to my sons pediatrician- he has 2 patients on ventilators (hopefully doing better by now, this was erev pesach)

And my poor little nephew who is holed up in the ICU after a torturous week with measles and needs to be on oxygen. He is too young for the vaccine but caught it from an unvaccinated child that was. Not. Kept. Home. On yontiff.

top mom

Mon, May 06 2019, 1:20 am

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

Yes. This is where the whole vaccine plan has messed up really badly. This could have been avoided had these pg women had measles as children. They would subsequently also be able to protect their infants via breastfeeding and the worry of "under a yr and can't be vaccinated" would not exist.

I am seriously Surprised

Your solution is to make sure that every single human being should make sure to get the measles as a child
And that is a smarter idea than vaccinating!
I personally know tens of people that got the MMR, and no side effects bh
Trying to picture all of them with the measles chv , somehow I think they would be way more miserable
What sheer brilliance!

ora_43

Mon, May 06 2019, 5:21 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Please explain who is it a danger to.
If all the kids in school are vaccinated and 1 child isn’t, wouldn’t the vaccinated children be safe?

Like nchr said, not all the vaccinated children would be safe. Around 3% of them would - without knowing it - still be vulnerable to catching measles.

Measles is an incredibly contagious illness. And people can pass the illness to others before they realize they are sick (it can potentially be a few days between starting to infect others, and getting a rash). So the odds of an unvaccinated kid catching the measles if it's going around are high, and the odds that if they do get sick they'll unintentionally pass it to others are high.

... but why worry more about the unvaccinated kid, than the 3% of vaccinated kids whose vaccines didn't take? Simple - because we can. We don't know who the vaccinated-non-immune kids are. We do know who the unvaccinated-non-immune kids are. Or at least they and their parents know who they are, and can take appropriate steps in order to not risk making others sick.

Like you guessed, 3% not being immune indicates a flaw in the vaccine. Vaccine doctors will be the first to tell you that the vaccine isn't perfect. It's our best option for now, but hopefully in the future we'll have something even better.

amother

Orchid

Mon, May 06 2019, 6:43 am

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

It's so convenient to drop relevant information to try to boost a faulty a conclusion.

Had these pg women had measles as a children, a significant percentage of them wouldn't be around to have children. They would either be dead or be suffering from brain damage.

The whole vaccine plan is one of medical greatest successes. To deny that, with the evidence of the childhood survival statistics literally staring in your face, is mind-boggling. But to twist it around, and make it out to be a harmful effect, borders on malevolence & immorality.

youngishbear

Mon, May 06 2019, 6:52 am

ora_43 wrote:

Getting technical here. Are we sure it's the vaccine? Isn't it more likely that at least some of these people's immune systems are underactive or malfunctioning in some way that we don't understand yet?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....2729/

momsrus

Mon, May 06 2019, 7:11 am

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

Ugh, I wish you people would stick to the same facts.

Some of you say immunity through breastfeeding. On the other ongoing thread someone says immunity is transmitted through the uterus.

So which is it??????

amother

Blue

Mon, May 06 2019, 7:17 am

the sheer illogic of antivax argument such as everyone should have gotten it as a child or to incorrectly portray it as less dangerous of a disease (when the statistics are available!) than it is truly boggles the mind and makes one wonder about the reasons anyone would stick to this emotional yet illogical view.

to portray vaccines as anything less than an overall nes....sad

poor Jonas Salk a"H-- he should be thanked daily!

amother

Firebrick

Mon, May 06 2019, 7:47 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thanks for sticking up for me.
I just want to know
No agenda/No propaganda
Plus I’m a Bubby already who vaccinated all my kids, on time, all vaccines
Except for chicken pox, because they all got the chicken pox.

And I’m guessing they all made it to adulthood without having had the 2 required varicella vaccines?

southernbubby

Mon, May 06 2019, 8:21 am

Some of my children born '79 to '89 were immune and some were re-immunized as adults, sometimes because of the rubella titers done during pregnancy.
One son, who stopped getting vaccinated at age 5 for medical reasons, was given both MMRs as an adult because of the outbreak and his measles titer came back non-immune. He did it because his wife gave birth during the outbreak.
I think that most of my children were immune from just one shot. Measles was simply not part of childhood when they were growing up.

southernbubby

Mon, May 06 2019, 8:24 am

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

And I’m guessing they all made it to adulthood without having had the 2 required varicella vaccines?

Varicella is a different discussion. Chicken pox can be dangerous but it appears that measles has it beat by miles.

gamanit

Mon, May 06 2019, 8:28 am

momsrus wrote:

Passive immunity actually involves both but it's not as strong or as lasting as getting the vaccine. Passive immunity does play a role in how sick you get though which is why Madagascar has insanely high mortality rates from measles and we get "mild" version which "only" harms a much smaller percentage of people. Some inherited immunity can actually pass down for several generations. This doesn't mean you won't get sick but that you have a better chance of surviving and of getting better faster than someone who has no inherited immunity.

momsrus

Mon, May 06 2019, 8:41 am

gamanit wrote:

Thanks for the explanation. but, this is not at all what they claim.

ora_43

Mon, May 06 2019, 9:57 am

youngishbear wrote:

It could definitely be that! I just meant "flaw" in the sense of imperfection. The vaccine isn't wrong, it's just not 100% perfect for everyone.

In a world with perfect vaccines, there'd be a way to vaccinate people who have weak/malfunctioning immune systems, too.

ora_43

Mon, May 06 2019, 10:07 am

gamanit wrote:

Madagascar has such high mortality rates because so many people are malnourished and/or lack access to medical care. AFAIK there's nothing special about the version of measles.

gamanit

Mon, May 06 2019, 10:12 am

ora_43 wrote:

Madagascar has such high mortality rates because so many people are malnourished and/or lack access to medical care. AFAIK there's nothing special about the version of measles.

Of course malnourishment is a factor. Another factor is that they aren't descended from measles survivors. It's not that they have a different version but that they have no passive immunity for it. They're working from scratch with no memory cells passed down from their parents. Not all of the victims were malnourished or lacking access to medical care.

southernbubby

Mon, May 06 2019, 10:14 am

ora_43 wrote:

Madagascar has such high mortality rates because so many people are malnourished and/or lack access to medical care. AFAIK there's nothing special about the version of measles.

Why was measles almost universally fatal in Native Americans when white settlers, who usually survived, transmitted measles to them?

saw50st8

Mon, May 06 2019, 10:18 am

southernbubby wrote:

Why was measles almost universally fatal in Native Americans when white settlers, who usually survived, transmitted measles to them?

I recently read a book (1491) that discussed this. Apparently, native Americans may not have some piece of DNA that Europeans do that makes them much more susceptible to the diseases Europeans brought over. It was a really interesting (although very dry) book.

(Apologies for butchering the technical biological terms)