Spinoff - Aliyah and job security

2gether

Mon, May 06 2019, 1:15 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

That's really odd. I always thought job security was much better in Israel!
Any unionized job here has amazing job security. Teachers, all gov't workers, etc.

Private companies still have more security than in the US in my opinion.

But very few of us in Israel belong to somewhere with a union...

I'm trying to understand the 2nd piece though, please clarify more! Smile

shabbatiscoming

Mon, May 06 2019, 1:42 am

2gether, I dont think its the job security people are worried about so much as actually finding a job. My husband was at a place for close to 9 years before he left. The next place he worked closed down. Same thing could happen all over the world.
I also would love to hear what people mean by this.

saw50st8

Mon, May 06 2019, 3:23 am

2gether wrote:

Maybe you can all explain something to me; why is the job security better in the US? Can't your boss also fire you just like in Isreal? No employor has to keep employees forever...

To understand where I'm coming from, I'm realy pretty Isreali, so please clue me in!

I work for a utility and it is very stable. They haven't had layoffs since the early 1980s and even then it was a tiny percentage of the company.

I think the bigger problem is language fluency. My technical skills may not be an issue but I certainly don't know how to say "corrosion rate" or " weld spatter" in Hebrew and I am not exactly fluent in regular Hebrew either. It makes it much harder to get a job when you don't speak the native language fluently.

amother

Lemon

Mon, May 06 2019, 3:35 am

I don't know. I have the feeling some Americans here live in an unintegrated bubble and maybe somehow get drawn to the same old positions that take advantage of them. Especially charedi Americans.

Someone on another thread said that all the women she knows (in Beitar) either work for pennies per hour or run their own daycare out of their house. For 6 NIS an hour per kid!

I don't live in Beitar, but I don't know anyone like that. The private daycares in my area are earning far more.

I've lived here for decades and very rarely do I ever hear that someone has been fired. A temporary job contract can end, of course, but that's something else.

I see it's very difficult for the charedi American women to break into the professional job market. Even something simple to study, like English teaching, doesn't seem to be very popular among that group.

notshanarishona

Mon, May 06 2019, 4:15 am

Do you know how little teaching English pays if you work for the school system ? Starting salary (at least 12 years ago when I looked into it) 25 nis an hour. It's not worth it for anyone to go to college to make so little and the market is flooded in any American area. It is not a worthwhile profession unless you live somewhere with not so many Americans. I think it was actually nefesh binefesh who told me not to bother with that.

amother

Lemon

Mon, May 06 2019, 4:28 am

notshanarishona wrote:

Actually I do know how 'little' English teaching pays in the school system.

If you have a BA (in anything really) and an accredited teaching diploma, you are starting with an 8000 NIS salary per month (working aproximately 8:30-3:30, 5 days a week).

You earn more if you have an MA (very easy to do alongside your teaching diploma, in a program called Mteach). You earn more if you teach bagrut classes in high school. You also earn more for every hishtalmut you do.

Every year you teach your salary increases. Job security is amazing. It's very difficult to fire a teacher after the first three years. You get paid 15 week maternity leave, paid sick days, and paid summer/pesach/chanuka.

After 20 years, you will be earning 13 or 14k bruto, if you have done hishtalmuyot every year. It's not the best paid job out there, but it isn't bad.

The pay was not as good 12 years ago (the new refore Oz Letmura wasn't yet implemented, and teaching was more of a part time job), but even then it was not 25 nis per hour!! It was about double, and that's without all the extra stuff on most tlushim (gmul this and gmul that, הסכם this and that, clothing expense, telephone, yadda yadda).

Israeli_C

Mon, May 06 2019, 5:28 am

Many thanks for the helpful post, Lemon! I was in the middle of my teudat horaa when I got pregnant with twins (one, I could manage to take to lectures and deal with the dirty looks from lecturers but two... is pushing it!) Bezrat H' when my 3rd youngest will start cheder I can put the twins in daycare and get back to it. I don't worry so much about the money aspect (BH DH earns well) but moreso if I can hack dealing with students. I live beside a secular highschool and find the kids there very intimidating

amother

Lemon

Mon, May 06 2019, 5:38 am

Israeli_C wrote:

if I can hack dealing with students. I live beside a secular highschool and find the kids there very intimidating

You don't have to work in a secular high school (although you would be surprised, in some of them the discipline is better than in dati schools).
There is the mamad dati system, and some charedi schools are also part of the school system. If I'm not mistaken, chabad girls' schools usually are, and maybe some Beit Ya'akov too.

Teaching can be a totally different experience from school to school. Some schools have class sizes of 40, some have 20, some even have 10 or 15. Sometimes you need to try a few schools to find your fit. But in general, a good English teacher is always in demand here. (Especially if she is a native speaker).

shabbatiscoming

Mon, May 06 2019, 5:56 am

notshanarishona wrote:

notshananrishona, first of all, minimum wage is higher than 25 shekels and has been for some time. Second of all, minimum monthly wage is just over 5k. Thats not pennies.
As for what you say about the market being flooded in anglo areas, I live in an anglo area. There are many english teachers that are doing wonderfully. And others who do private chugim.
I dont think nefesh bnefesh is always the authority on how things really are (Ive seen this a few times in real life, to be true)

lech lecha08

Mon, May 06 2019, 6:03 am

saw50st8 wrote:

I worked in a medical field and DH is in computers. There are so many words that nobody uses the real Hebrew for and just say in English with an Israeli accent. DH was even invited to a meeting l'dascase some issue. He was so confused until he realized the person was just pronouncing "discuss" with an accent.

Israeli_C

Mon, May 06 2019, 6:07 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

This is true. I sat in an English class in a mamlachti dati all-girls school and they were hyperactive. In contrast, I also saw an English class in an upper class neighbourhood (secular) and they were extremely well behaved. I guess it depends on the school. A Chabad school would be ideal. I heard from a woman working in a BY that they only employ their own graduates because they know how to 'behave according to their rules' - ugh. Often means the standard of their teachers is poor. Especially in English.

Aylat

Mon, May 06 2019, 7:04 am

Israeli_C wrote:

if I can hack dealing with students. I live beside a secular highschool and find the kids there very intimidating

.

I teach in a secular high school and really enjoy it. I also did supply teaching at mamad primary schools, but I much prefer teaching high school age. Secular vs religious, well, teens are teens. Also, I find it fascinating getting to know Israeli secular culture - in some ways it's more religious than you think. It's not just Shabbat Shalom on Fridays, it's Gmar Chatima Tova before Yom Kippur. And people are surprising - one of my pupils, a regular looking secular teen, goes to a weekly Torah shiur, and spent an hour enthusing to me about themes in Tanach and how every word is directly from Hashem.

Last edited by Aylat on Mon, May 06 2019, 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total

notshanarishona

Mon, May 06 2019, 7:49 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

As I wrote this was more than 12 years ago, minimum wage was 21.90 if I remember correctly. I looked into a few different schools and that was approximately the pay they offered me. It could me it would have been different if I applied in other cities or in more modern schools but this was what I saw. And as far as Anglo areas , again every Anglo area is different. In Ramat Eshkol, Maalot Dafne , Nevey Yaakov , Beitar , and Har Nof which were the places I looked into it was not an easy field to get into. And it's all true that most chareidi schools would sooner hire someone who is an alumnus than a chutznik, even one who speaks hebrew.

imasoftov

Mon, May 06 2019, 8:09 am

lech lecha08 wrote:

... l'dascase ... the person was just pronouncing "discuss" with an accent

Rather than pronouncing the English word with an accent, I think that what your husband heard was someone treating the consonants of the word as if they were a Hebrew root which is why there was a lamed and different vowels.

דקדוק ותחביר של דסקס

sub

Mon, May 06 2019, 8:58 am

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

For me the issue is more about the salary here
My current job in Israel pays me 30 shekels an hour- approx 8 dollars
The exact same job in the US would pay approx 25 dollars
It's upsetting to work for so little

Compare the cost of living
Rent in brooklyn for a small 3 bdrm begins at 2500$ A month. Tuition for 1 child is 400-700 a month depends which school. Food, insurance,utilities etc.
In NJ the salaries are lower. Ex: an xray tech in Brooklyn can earn 30-40$ an hour in NJ 20$ an hour. So comparisons need to include all incomes and expenses