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Latest PBS Arthur Episode - Mr Ratburn gets married...
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amother




OP


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:35 pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/d.....14162/amp/

Never trust any kids TV show to have no propaganda .

I am generally a open minded but as a frum person am not thrilled about this at all and feel like the days when we could trust clean ratings are over because of all sorts of political agendas

Please weigh in
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trixx




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:40 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2019/05/arthur-gay-wedding-mr-ratburn-pbs-kids-1202614162/amp/

Never trust any kids TV show to have no propaganda .

I am generally a open minded but as a frum person am not thrilled about this at all and feel like the days when we could trust clean ratings are over because of all sorts of political agendas

Please weigh in


There's your solution. Don't allow TV. I don't trust any of it.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:45 pm
Prescreen everything, and only allow DVDs.

Kids usually want to watch the same thing over and over again, anyway.
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mlc




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:45 pm
It is scary how certain things are becoming kid friendly across the board.

Our kids are growing up in a very different world than we did , way less of a concept of childhood innocence.

All we can do is daven
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urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:50 pm
So many kids shows have veiled references and questionable characters like you wouldn't believe. Even older classics (I'm looking at you, He-Man and She-Ra!)

I have mixed feelings about this particular example. On one hand, I feel like for so many children, gay parents are a fait accompli. It's not their choice, they have done nothing wrong, and they deserve to feel themselves represented in the media. On the other hand, I feel like the entire discussion of s-xual orientation needs to be presented at an age-appropriate time, and preschool is not it.

I think Doctor McStuffins is another show for tiny kids with gay parents. I really wish there was some kind of content warning on material like this so parents can choose for themselves whether they will allow their kids to watch it or not. Does anyone know of any website that posts alerts for stuff like this?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:55 pm
https://www.commonsensemedia.org/tv-lists

This site breaks down the message of the shows, with ratings and reviews from other parents. It tells you what age the show is appropriate for, and what features may be problematic for some families.

Like UrbanGypsy said, it lets parents choose for themselves.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:56 pm
I didn't even know that Arthur was still in production!

In the United States, marriage between 2 consenting adults -- whether M/F, M/M or F/F is perfectly legal, and children are highly likely to encounter gay couples whether as parents of their friends or others in the community. Showing it is simply another way of showing the diverse community that Arthur lives in, and depicting acceptance of that diversity.

If I were going to have a problem with Arthur, it would be with Francine watching TV on Yom Kippur, and not keeping kosher (including eating treyf pizza on Yom Kippur). But I don't have much of a problem with that, either. Its a TV show.
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urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:58 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
https://www.commonsensemedia.org/tv-lists

This site breaks down the message of the shows, with ratings and reviews from other parents. It tells you what age the show is appropriate for, and what features may be problematic for some families.

Like UrbanGypsy said, it lets parents choose for themselves.


I'm aware of that site (and use it religiously!) but it wouldn't help in the case of episodes on a currently airing television show, would it? I'm sure commonsense media would never flag same-sx marriage as a potential problem... it's not that kind of website.
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urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:59 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
If I were going to have a problem with Arthur, it would be with Francine watching TV on Yom Kippur, and not keeping kosher (including eating treyf pizza on Yom Kippur). But I don't have much of a problem with that, either. Its a TV show.


Poor Francine, she tried SO HARD to fast though!!! Crying
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amother




Lime


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:59 pm
urban gypsy wrote:
So many kids shows have veiled references and questionable characters like you wouldn't believe. Even older classics (I'm looking at you, He-Man and She-Ra!)

I have mixed feelings about this particular example. On one hand, I feel like for so many children, gay parents are a fait accompli. It's not their choice, they have done nothing wrong, and they deserve to feel themselves represented in the media. On the other hand, I feel like the entire discussion of s-xual orientation needs to be presented at an age-appropriate time, and preschool is not it.

I think Doctor McStuffins is another show for tiny kids with gay parents. I really wish there was some kind of content warning on material like this so parents can choose for themselves whether they will allow their kids to watch it or not. Does anyone know of any website that posts alerts for stuff like this?


Doc mcstuffins parents are heterosexual.
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miami85




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 1:00 pm
I dont necessisarily think that the show had an "agenda" but rather they are a show that claims to be all-inclusive and were probably pressured to be "all inclusive" and had to find a way to incorporate this new "norm" into the show. It's probably more frustrating that he's a "high profile" long-time character on the show as opposed to just a "new neighbor in town."

I think my response to everything that my kids watch that deals with differences to our Torah values--whether it be this or x-mas/santa claus to treif. Is "We have the Torah and the Torah says otherwise".

We just moved from a quite frum neighborhood in NYC to a regular-USA city out-of-town and my kids are still asking me "why are so many people driving on Shabbos?"But truth be told we have to realize how much of a minority we are in this country. The media is very liberal and wants to include everyone, to the exclusion of those with moral values.

That type of relationship is "nothing new", I read in an old Judaic book (I think Maurice Lamms book about Love and Marriage) how these practices can be traced back to Roman times and what is assur. This book discussed that the main issue is when it is done primarily for hedonistic purposes. But perhaps less so among those who are genuinely not attracted to the opposite-gender. Today, its is just more acceptable to talk about it openly whereas back in the 80s it was still considered a mental-issue.


Last edited by miami85 on Tue, May 14 2019, 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 1:00 pm
amother [ Lime ] wrote:
Doc mcstuffins parents are heterosexual.


https://onemillionmoms.com/cur.....cstuffins/

I guess I found myself a website that sends alerts for "trash in the media" LOL


Last edited by urban gypsy on Tue, May 14 2019, 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bigsis144




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 1:01 pm
I am not surprised. Mr. Ratburn is canonically into musical theater, after all.

Arthur has always been a show that tackled diversity stuff and real-life issues - Francine is Jewish (they have a Yom Kippur episode, not just typical Chanukah), Buster’s parents are divorced (I think? His dad is a pilot so he’s never home at the very least), the Tibble twins live with their grandma (no parents in sight), there are autistic and dyslexic characters, Binky Barnes has an adopted sister from China, they had episodes that indirectly referenced 9/11 and hurricane Katrina, and helped kids deal with their anxieties in a scary world...

I can see the side that says Mr. Ratburn marrying a man is no more inappropriate or s-xually explicit than showing Arthur’s parents as a male-female couple. To a non-frum audience, the value of “families come in all shapes and sizes; it’s all about people who love each other” is a good one.

In the 00’s, the Buster spinoff show was pulled off the air by the US Secretary of Education and its federal funding revoked for an episode that mentioned a family with two moms. I don’t know if I would want the government interfering like that - could they even do that anymore? Should they?

It’s really tricky, and the only thing we really can do is talk to our kids honestly about living in a world that doesn’t have Torah values, and be careful about what we expose our kids to. Streaming and website as cheaper and more convenient than buying individual DVDs, but we lose a whole lot more control that way.

It’s complicated.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 1:30 pm
I had no clue Arthur still comes on lol! Wow!! I have a lesbian daughter, so once upon a time, this revelation on Arthur would've bothered me a lot. But now that I've come to terms with my dd, it doesn't bother me at all. Of course, all parents have the option and right to allow their child (or not) to watch what they deem appropriate.
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amother




Orange


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 2:21 pm
urban gypsy wrote:
So many kids shows have veiled references and questionable characters like you wouldn't believe. Even older classics (I'm looking at you, He-Man and She-Ra!)

I have mixed feelings about this particular example. On one hand, I feel like for so many children, gay parents are a fait accompli. It's not their choice, they have done nothing wrong, and they deserve to feel themselves represented in the media. On the other hand, I feel like the entire discussion of s-xual orientation needs to be presented at an age-appropriate time, and preschool is not it.

I think Doctor McStuffins is another show for tiny kids with gay parents. I really wish there was some kind of content warning on material like this so parents can choose for themselves whether they will allow their kids to watch it or not. Does anyone know of any website that posts alerts for stuff like this?


doc mcstuffins has gay parents? Really? I know a frum guy who directed that show.
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urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 2:40 pm
amother [ Orange ] wrote:
doc mcstuffins has gay parents? Really? I know a frum guy who directed that show.


I just posted upthread with an article answering this question.
Not Doc's parents, but one episode had a family with two moms.
The show creator and executive producer is a lesbian mom.
In television, it is common to have different directors for each episode so they have limited creative input (compared to an "auteur" film director)
Also, it's likely that frum director you reference has no problem with gay marriage, or he wouldn't have participated in the project, so I'm not sure what you think that proves.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 3:50 pm
urban gypsy wrote:
So many kids shows have veiled references and questionable characters like you wouldn't believe. Even older classics (I'm looking at you, He-Man and She-Ra!)

?


Wait. WHAT veiled references are in He-Man and She-Ra??
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 3:53 pm
Lol, Mr. Ratburn has been pinging my gaydar for years!

Seriously, though, I'm with SixOfWands on this.

If you are going to allow your kids to watch TV -- even relatively tame children's programming -- you're going to be faced with these kinds of things.

I actually did allow my kids to watch Arthur videos, and we had a lot of conversations about Francine and her family over the years. In fact, I think that was my kids' first introduction to the idea that not all Jews are observant of kashrus, Shabbos, etc. If I recall, my DDs were highly scandalized by the fact that Francine wore jeans.

At the time, I was just hanging onto my sanity with a bunch of little kids, and Arthur seemed a lot better than most kids' videos. Plus, I liked the theme song.

Looking back, though, it worked out well. It prompted conversations that probably wouldn't have taken place otherwise, and it introduced the idea that good, nice people can do things we as Jews don't do -- and even the idea that not all Jews behave in ways we agree with.

It was also helpful that it occurred within a completely fictional context; it's a lot easier to talk dispassionately about Francine than about a relative or neighbor.

But on to other concerns: most of the families in Arthur are homospecific. Francine's family is made up of all chimpanzees; Arthur's family is aardvaark; Buster's parents are both rabbits, etc.

Mr. Ratburn's new husband does not look like a member of the Rodentia genus or even a Mustelid. So it seems like a lot of boundaries are being pushed!
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PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 4:10 pm
And I didn't know Francine was Jewish till this thread.
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amother




Coral


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 4:13 pm
Diversity is mostly good- if we want to see, say, autistic kids, or kids with divorced parents being represented, then this is part of the package in this day and age. Therefore, you need to screen EVERYTHING before your kids watch it, particularly anything that's come out in the last five years (though really everything. You'd be surprised by what might come up in things from when you were growing up, and also ratings were less defined than they are now.) Personally, I'm uncomfortable with this. But guess what? If you have kids who are young enough to be watching Arthur, then you have kids who are young enough that you can really be on top of this! Even better, with a show like Arthur that's been running for 20 years, you have hundreds of episodes available that won't have anything remotely objectionable and you can just choose those. In fact, thank you for the public service in posting this today. I mean that totally sincerely. Now I know to stick with the older seasons of Arthur.
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