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Testing hashem with maaser

 
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amother




OP


Post  Wed, May 22 2019, 8:23 pm
There have been a few maaser related threads lately, and the concept of "testing hashem" was brought up. I struggle with my emunah because I feel like often times we try to make sense out of things that really don't make sense. This idea of Masser and testing hashem bothers me because it seems to be untrue. For every case of someone claiming to have tested hashem and received positive results, there are others who give Maaser and not only aren't they rich, (as the promise says) they are desperately struggling.

Is there a good, practical explanation to this?
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amother




Azure


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 4:06 am
My husband recently pledged $100 a month for a chsridy campaign. From your average person we gave the most. My husband is unemployed. A week later someone gave us a massive check 4 that amount..
Every time we give we get back.
My husband will give tzedakah and then win a raffle. We are stuggling financially but my husband loves giving.
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salt




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 4:12 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
There have been a few maaser related threads lately, and the concept of "testing hashem" was brought up. I struggle with my emunah because I feel like often times we try to make sense out of things that really don't make sense. This idea of Masser and testing hashem bothers me because it seems to be untrue. For every case of someone claiming to have tested hashem and received positive results, there are others who give Maaser and not only aren't they rich, (as the promise says) they are desperately struggling.

Is there a good, practical explanation to this?


Do you have particular cases of people you know personally who gave maaser and are poor?
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amother




Gray


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 5:03 am
eizer Hu ashir? Hasameach bchelko.

I suspect that part (not all) of the "trick" of maaser is that it makes you happy with what you have.
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yerushamama




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 5:48 am
It's not always easy to trace it back to maaser. Sometimes one receives the exact amount that they gave, but not always. A lot of times it is hard to see the connection between giving maaser and, for example, finding a great sale on something you need, or your landlord changing his mind about a rent increase (esp one he never mentioned to you!). That is where emuna comes in. If it were always so clear, bechira wouldn't really exist in the same way.
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 6:34 am
salt wrote:
Do you have particular cases of people you know personally who gave maaser and are poor?



Yes. The poster above you says her dh gives and they are struggling.
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amother




Red


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 6:42 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
There have been a few maaser related threads lately, and the concept of "testing hashem" was brought up. I struggle with my emunah because I feel like often times we try to make sense out of things that really don't make sense. This idea of Masser and testing hashem bothers me because it seems to be untrue. For every case of someone claiming to have tested hashem and received positive results, there are others who give Maaser and not only aren't they rich, (as the promise says) they are desperately struggling.

Is there a good, practical explanation to this?


Ok, op, I agree with you 100% but dont let this get in the way of emuna/bitachon. Why? Because I learned so many nice chazals/concepts in school but real life is different. The reason is bec we can't interpret the chazal how we think but there's always a deeper meaning like the chazal that if one says ashrei three times a day he gets olam haba. But most ppl say it three times and wat if that same person sins???

So too, We CANT UNDERSTAND HASHEMS WAYS. so, if Joe is supposed to only make $1200 but gives maaser maybe hashem wil give him an extra" $200 but that's still not enough for him to pay his expenses. But maybe hashem decreed he has to be poor. So he got more money back from giving maaser but he's still poor. We can't understand because hashem has the grand plan which we don't know or see.

Do you know anyone who has put so much hishtadlus and still can't make ends meet?? Well I do know and they give maaser but hashem has a plan and part of that plan is that some ppl will be rich and others poor n struggling. I don't believe one can say "I'm poor but il give maaser and have no more money struggles" because we don't know what hashem means by rich and we don't know when it'll happen....

But I dont think you should let this affect your emuna/bitachin because you have to give maaser and just trust and believe that it helped you but that we don't and wont know how and wont understand. We just have to trust blindly that all these chazals are true but we wont know how bec we can't see the entire plan or"puzzle" and how "everything clicks into place"
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Iymnok




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 6:45 am
Generally poor people are giving less maaser, so they have less coming back.
Your analysis doesn’t work.
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 7:01 am
Iymnok wrote:
Generally poor people are giving less maaser, so they have less coming back.
Your analysis doesn’t work.


The torah's promise is that one who separates and gives masser will become rich. It wouldn't matter if they started out poor so their 10% maaser was small. They should still become rich and we are supposed to be able to test hashem with this.
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 7:28 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The torah's promise is that one who separates and gives masser will become rich. It wouldn't matter if they started out poor so their 10% maaser was small. They should still become rich and we are supposed to be able to test hashem with this.


The Torahs promise refers to regular maaser, not maaser kesafim (maaser from money). I am not sure if maaser kesafim is an obligation or just a good thing.

Even so, I have heard it over and over again from countless sources that when you give tzedakah Hashem pays you back. Whether it's in the form of money, or maybe you were supposed to have certain expenses that were avoided, of whether it's in the form of a different type of yeshuah.

As for the poster above- maybe she'll get rich yet, things are not always instantaneous. Also, are people who say they give maaser really giving full maaser? It's very easy to make a mistake in the calculations.
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 8:03 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
The Torahs promise refers to regular maaser, not maaser kesafim (maaser from money). I am not sure if maaser kesafim is an obligation or just a good thing.

Even so, I have heard it over and over again from countless sources that when you give tzedakah Hashem pays you back. Whether it's in the form of money, or maybe you were supposed to have certain expenses that were avoided, of whether it's in the form of a different type of yeshuah.

As for the poster above- maybe she'll get rich yet, things are not always instantaneous. Also, are people who say they give maaser really giving full maaser? It's very easy to make a mistake in the calculations.



So is there any way to follow thru and test hashem with this, or are there to many unknowns with regard to how it's supposed to be work?
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 8:10 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So is there any way to follow thru and test hashem with this, or are there to many unknowns with regard to how it's supposed to be work?


From what I understand, the promise was about giving maaser in Eretz Yisroel. So, no, as far as I know there's no practical way to test it nowadays.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 8:24 am
First of all, you might be giving maaser. CYLOR but your kids' tuition might count. And ask your LOR what your obligations are if you're struggling.

Don't feel like a door is closing if you can't give the way you'd like, or the way you feel you should for the test to "work." Find other ways to be giving, e.g.maybe you can give your time and skills to something, even if not a tenth. Tizku l'mitzvos!
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amother




Bisque


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 9:27 am
BH I am able to give maaser. But I find the concept of testing Hashem to be problematic. Does Hashem owe us anything? Yes, I believe in schar for mitzvahs. But we don't know how it is applied in this world, even for direct promises. Isn't that why Acher went off? He saw a child die after Shiluach Hakan.
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amother




Apricot


Post  Thu, May 23 2019, 9:47 am
My family has a bit of experience in the lending money field so we really see it all...
It isn't black and white as in "I gave $100 so I get it back". Hashem has thousands of ways of giving or taking money. When a person gives maaser their money has bracha. Meaning, Hashem will help them retain and have money for all they need. On the flip side, Hashem has many ways of taking away money from those who don't give properly. Just think: appliance breaks, car needs a repair, flood in your basement, child needs therapy that isn't covered by insurance, Doctor's bills.... etc, etc. These are all expenses that some have and some don't! (I am not implying that those who do don't give maaser - just giving you an idea). By giving maaser, Hashem insures that our money doesn't come in and go out.
Unfortunately, there are many people who make very large salaries and somehow find that they cannot make ends meet, and then there are people bring in half as much money that somehow are doing ok.
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salt




 
 
 


Post  Sun, May 26 2019, 3:12 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Yes. The poster above you says her dh gives and they are struggling.


She wrote that she is struggling but loves to give because every time they give they get back.

"Every time we give we get back.
My husband will give tzedakah and then win a raffle. We are stuggling financially but my husband loves giving."
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, May 26 2019, 7:11 am
salt wrote:
She wrote that she is struggling but loves to give because every time they give they get back.

"Every time we give we get back.
My husband will give tzedakah and then win a raffle. We are stuggling financially but my husband loves giving."



Hashems promise is that those who give maaser will become RICH.
Not simply that they will get back what they gave and continue to struggle.
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imasoftov




 
 
 


Post  Sun, May 26 2019, 12:20 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
The Torahs promise refers to regular maaser, not maaser kesafim (maaser from money). I am not sure if maaser kesafim is an obligation or just a good thing.

Even so, I have heard it over and over again from countless sources that when you give tzedakah Hashem pays you back. Whether it's in the form of money, or maybe you were supposed to have certain expenses that were avoided, of whether it's in the form of a different type of yeshuah.

As for the poster above- maybe she'll get rich yet, things are not always instantaneous. Also, are people who say they give maaser really giving full maaser? It's very easy to make a mistake in the calculations.

Well we do have some private farmers in Israel, not all the agriculture is done at kibbutzim. Are all frum farmers rich? Are frum working people choosing to go into agriculture because giving maaser guarantees wealth? And if not, why?

I first considered the possibility that maazer is only derabbanan in our times because most of the Jewish populations lives outside Israel. and perhaps it's only guaranteed to work when it's deoraita, as the midrash that says עשר בשביל שתתעשר (give maaser so that you will become rich) is based on Devarim 14:22), but I rejected that because that was also the case at the time of Malachi, who prophesized during the early Second Temple period, but at no time after the first Exile did most of the Jews live in Eretz Yisrael and Malachi (3:10) is the source for testing Hashem by giving maaser

While searching for sources I found this (in Hebrew) which covers some of the same ground and says that most poskim allow testing Hashem through maaser kesafim although the Shela says that wealth only comes from maaser on grain, wine, and oil. In light of this I add to my question if frum private farmers prefer to grow these crops rather than (or in addition to) others because perhaps maaser on avocados and oranges doesn't have the same promise of wealth.
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 27 2019, 8:41 am
Ask a shaila.
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