Do you even feel a little bit bad?

amother

Forestgreen

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 4:42 pm

I just had a baby. I checked my titers and I’m immune. My 1.5 year old got the shot in October. I was just notified that when I took my 1.5 year old to the doctor last week, there was a child with measles there. I thank Hashem I left my newborn at home and didn’t bring her.

For the next 2 weeks I am worried about my 1.5 yo. I’m praying he’s immune from the vaccine and doesn’t get the measles. I have to watch my newborn carefully. The next 2 weeks are very nerve wracking as we wait to see what happens.

I generally don’t comment on these threads but now that I’ve been exposed I can’t stay silent. If you aren’t vaccinating then please stay home and quarantine your family until this outbreak is over.

This summer, instead of taking my family to local Brooklyn fun places on Sundays (as we don’t go away), my kids will be stuck at home. I won’t take them to the parks that were redone as it’ll be packed there. Not willing to risk it.

nchr

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 4:45 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I do agree that health departments learned several lessons the hard way.
I also think that studies should be done on families like yours, to determine if members of such families should avoid most vaccines. One of my sons was unable to be vaccinated from the age of 5, due to a bad reaction to a flu shot but recently was successful at handling the MMR as an adult. There are people who can't be safely vaccinated and hopefully science will learn how to identify them.

Yes, her family should volunteer to be studied because it may help us identify the small group of individuals who cannot be vaccinated safely or can be under certain conditions. And obviously anyone would feel sorry that you had to deal with all of that, regardless of what caused it. I also believe in an individuals right to choose to vaccinate.

nchr

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 5:08 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

If such a study exists, please publicize it. Many anti-vax families would be thrilled to participate, to make vaccinating safer for others.

I don't believe there is anybody interested in funding such a study. It supports the theory that vaccine damage is real, and that's something that pro-vaxxers violently oppose.

No one denies that there is a very small chance (1 in 1 million or 1 in 4 million) of having an adverse reaction to a vaccine. The question is if the risk is greater for some individuals (such as your family) or it is reasonable for people to assume their family falls into that category when they most likely do not (I.e. don't have a family history like you described). Contact your local teaching hospitals and ask them if they have any genetic studies in this area.

southernbubby

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 5:12 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

In the May 22 issue of Ami, Dr Alan Kadish was interviewed and although he is involved in promoting vaccines, he acknowledged that in rare cases, the MMR causes brain damage.

southernbubby

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 5:19 pm

nchr wrote:

Even if the law doesn't force vaccines, schools and other public places should have the right to exclude non-vaccinated people during outbreaks. Pregnant teachers should not have to subject themselves to possible pre-term birth.

yksraya

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 5:34 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

I feel so so so so sorry for you. Poor you. I hope this passes quickly n easily for you. Probably so tough.

My nephew got a Dtap and was delirious for three days after. He then started regressing. The top neurologist in the country where he lived then confirmed the "correlation"
My cousin got a shot and had extremely high temp for two weeks and stopped doing the milestones he had and has multiple issues since. Serious issues.
Another one found her baby blue in bed the night of vaccine.
And another one developed seizures right after
And then there are some in the family who blame some other issues on the vaccine based on some reason or another but maybe yes maybe no
Do you feel sorry for me?
Of course the shots are perfect and gods gift to humanity. It's simply my family who has a defect
Oh, and due to the outbreak, I kept my kids home whenever they were under the weather. Until I went to a measles party and kept them under house arrest until the contagion was over. In order to protect people like you
It was a hard winter
Unlike my neighbor who clearly had a measles rash but pranced around with the claim that she got two MMRs
I'm sorry that the health department failed you by forgetting to educate us on how to identify measles and stay isolated. Because promoting vaccinations took priority

Ok, so everything that ever happened to your family, is right away blamed on vaccines? Do you for even a minute think those kids wouldn't have had those issues had they not gotten the shot?

I see it more like a family with kids with certain issues. Very normal for a big family that some of the kids/grandkids will have certain issues. Everyone has struggles. Many kids from non vax homes have issues too. It has nothing to do with the shots.

Maybe

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 5:45 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It turns out that I don't have immunity to measles. Living anywhere else in the US but in the frum community or 5 counties in California, I wouldn't have to get the MMR vaccines again. Because of my frail health, getting vaccinated is an issue. I don't have a choice now even though my doctor said it was almost certain I will get a reaction with a fever and possibly a rash.

I can't go to shul or any public places because of the non- vaxers. I need to wait until at least 28 more days. You destroyed herd immunity. My doctor told me that one more infection could kill me.

Don't you care about others? Do you feel bad for causing me distress?

I feel sorry for you, however #1 if you would have had measles as a kid like I did & my kids .You would have lifetime immunity, and maybe healthier. #2 hospitals warn recently vaxxed to stay away from patients, NOT the unvaxxed since they shed the live virus MMR-V nasal flumist & more. #3 Halacha dictates protect my life 1st. #4 I am the real herd immunity ,the vaxxed whose immunity has worn off, are destroying herd immunity. #5 I kept my kids home from 1st exposure to measles until they recovered , the recently vaxxed are NOT doing that. Refuah shleimah

nchr

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 5:55 pm

Maybe wrote:

1. MMR is about an effective in providing lifelong immunity as the measles itself. People who had natural measles can also lose immunity either because of an issue with their own immune system, medical treatments or diseases, etc. The first person in Monsey to catch the measles from an Israeli relative had the measles as a child. This is very rare, but the MMR is about as effective as natural measles at preventing measles (less effective for mumps). The measles is so disruptive to the immune system that for up to three years after a measles infections, an individual is at greater risk of contracting other illnesses and experiencing severe complications from them.

2. Measles does not shed. Individuals vaccinated with MMR do not need to be kept away from hospitals or immune compromised individuals. The vaccines that shed are the chicken pox (potentially and only when a child has a rash - that is the v), rotavirus (so immune compromised invididuals should not change the diapers of children recently vaccinated with this), OPV (which is not given in the US - but is also why this vaccine is so effective at stopping polio outbreaks because it ensures even those not vaccinated but potentially exposed to shedding virus will be protected), and while extremely small amounts of rubella were found in less than 1% of people vaccinated its shedding is not considered significant enough to be relevant. I think studies showed the flu mist you mentioned may shed, but recent studies have shown this is not even a very effective vaccine so it was not offered where I live.

3. Protection is really up to Hashem, but I do believe you have a choice to try and protect yourself as you see fit. I do think though that if you negligently expose someone you should be fined or charged, but only if negligent (I.e. knew you were exposed to and not immune to measles and then sent your child to school where she infected a classmate who became blind from the disease etc.).

southernbubby

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 5:58 pm

Maybe wrote:

I feel sorry for you, however #1 if you would have had measles as a kid like I did & my kids .You would have lifetime immunity, and maybe healthier. #2 hospitals warn recently vaxxed to stay away from patients, NOT the unvaxxed since they shed the live virus MMR-V nasal flumist & more. #3 Halacha dictates protect my life 1st. #4 I am the real herd immunity not the vaxxed whose immunity has worn off, they are destroying herd immunity.

Just like your screen name says, "maybe". Not everyone got measles as children prior to vaccines. Many people entered adulthood and their childbearing years with no immunity.

While I agree that we have learned many things about vaccines since the outbreak began, we are living in a society that has relied on the measles vaccine for more than half a century. You can't just decide that society should go back in time.

If you are entitled by halacha to put yourself first, others are entitled to do the same by excluding people who are not immune via vaccines or the virus itself from public functions.

amother

Coral

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 7:29 pm

Maybe wrote:

Interestingly, a family member of mine who had the chicken pox itself is not immune and had to have the shot, while another who had the shot and not the disease is immune. Shots and natural immunity can both fail.

amother

Olive

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 7:39 pm

nchr wrote:

If vaccine reactions are so rare, why was liability taken away from drug companies for vaccine injury compensation in 1986 with the excuse that they won't be able to continue making these wonderful vaccines while having to pay the heavy price of litigation and compensation. I'm sure they could've afforded to pay out one of four million vaccines as injury

yerushamama

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 7:45 pm

nchr wrote:

Another point to ponder - What caused the adverse reaction - the virus in the vaccine or the other ingredients? I am sure that people who have an adverse reaction due to the viral part of the vaccine would not do better contracting the virus itself!

Also, nchr, I was surprised at the low numbers you mentioned for shedding of the rubella component. About half of my kids came down with a rubella type virus shortly after receiving the MMR, and my doctor told me at the time that it was fairly common.

amother

Olive

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 8:11 pm

nchr wrote:

All of the statements you were responded to ha w been refuted by science.

1. Children born to mothers who received the MMR have comparable measles immunity to those whose mothers had measles. Their protection from the womb begins to wean, equally for both children whose mothers had MMR and children whose mothers had natural measles, around 6 months of age.

2. The MMR provides lifelong immunity. Through adulthood and geriatrics to measles for over 97% of people. Natural measles provides lifelong immunity for about the same percentage of people.

3. Money paid by the govt for vaccine injury includes the small percentage of people legitimately injured but also includes people who were not injured by vaccines but claimed to be. These individuals do not need go scientifically prove they were injured by vaccines. There are billions of more people alive today because of vaccines and suggesting your child will be in the less than 1 percent is not rational.

uhu because it is generally extremely easy to get money out of the govt and it is much easier to fit into their guidelines of what they accept to be a vaccine injury. of course people just get compensated right and left for no good reason

I have more to say about the other stuff you wrote but not for now

HelloG

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 8:19 pm

southernbubby wrote:

interestingly enough, I went to the atrium pro vaccine event and Dr. Naor Bar Zeev was saying how important it is not to tear families apart due to vaccination. he explained that a healthy person has no chance of transmitting measles. he said that if the person has itchy eyes or cold like symptoms then definitely un-invite them, but otherwise there is no logic to believe that a healthy person will give you measles. (I did not quote his exact wordings)

amother

Olive

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 8:21 pm

southernbubby wrote:

good idea. let DOH educate people how and when to gain natural immunity before marriageable age. or to get the shot before getting married if no immunity was developed by then

amother

Olive

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 8:24 pm

yksraya wrote:

maybe they would but maybe they wouldn't.
if we say "correlation doesn't equal causation" very many times loud and clear then it for sure will be that way.

amother

Olive

Wed, Jun 05 2019, 8:25 pm

nchr wrote:

you mind bringing some hard studies? or your doctor said?