Clueless guests | Imamother

chestnut

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 8:24 am

We keep on giving suggestions on what to do if these female guests are the only guests here. It seems to me that's an incorrect assumption. OP was clear that her husband Doesn't mind entertaining men.
So, the husband getting up and going to the Seforim room to learn will work only if he's willing to leave the male guests as well. Which is unclear.
Looks like the OP wants the women to leave the living room table when she leaves, so the husband and men can shmooze.
Is it the idea, OP?

amother

Denim

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:38 am

OP is it possible that you are the one who is uncomfortable when your husband socializes with single women? He's being friendly and appears fine with it when it's actually happening. Maybe at other times he recognizes that he may have inappropriate boundaries though. Or maybe you feel uncomfortable with how he behaves or maybe even justifiably insecure or concerned when you think about him socializing with them. (I get it and I might feel the same.)

Do the women dress and behave in a tznius way? Is it really just their presence that's the problem, or is the whole interaction just not ok?

Is this more of a marriage question than a guest question? Is the real question, what do I do about my husband who enjoys socializing with women?

By the way I think that's a perfectly legitimate concern.

groovy1224

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:53 am

DrMom wrote:

YES I was beginning to wonder if no one else noticed this.

And then people keep giving OP perfectly reasonable solutions, all of which she has rejected, saying she doesn't want to offend anyone. But also why should her husband suffer. But also why should the guests suffer. But also why are they being so difficult.

This situation (if it is real,which I'm now doubting) is not that complicated. The guests can hang out in one of your rooms which keep popping up at random in this thread (sukkah room? What is that?) or go to bed. All I know is the problem isn't the 'clueless' guests..

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:36 am

DrMom wrote:

This whole thread has me baffled.

- For 3 pages, several posters suggested showing guests to the front door when the meal is over. OP liked the idea; her only concern was how to get the ladies to follow her.

- Then, a few pages later, we learn that these guests are SLEEPING at her house.

- So why was she even thinking of showing them to the front door?

OP, you are not feeling well, you and your DH have erected all sorts of rigid social restrictions, and you are unwilling to take reasonable measures to accommodate your guests.

Perhaps this isn't the best time to host.

When posters were saying to show them the door, I assumed the dining room door because they were always sleep over guests. The second false assumption people made is that the guests were for the meal only. Why would I invite anyone for the Friday night meal when it is night likely, I can stay for the whole meal? The third assumption is that DH and I "erected all sorts of rigid social restrictions". What you are calling rigid social restrictions is my community norm. AAMOF we are more relaxed than most.

To further clarify, I didn't reach out to invite these ladies. They tell me the alternative is to stay home. I figured a nice place to stay and 5 meals is enough. I don't have to push DH put off his comfort zone, so they can stay up late schmoozing at the table. I do nap on Fridays, but I can't stay up as late as the ladies like.

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:40 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

You are totally off base. If I were in ther slightest uncomfortable with these guests, I would bring them into my home. I have no obligations to them except I feel bad.

amother

Bisque

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:45 am

And yet again you have mentioned that it is the guests that invite themselves. I get the feelong that the issue is - I don't want to have guests anymore ! They keep inviting themselves - how do I say no?
Is anyone else noticing this ?

And I am also baffled at the turns this thread has taken. First it was trying to get them to leave the table. .how do I get them to leave the table when I leave the table. That was a direct quote of OP. Then suddenly they are no longer at the table they are on the couches . And there is an open floor plan. And how do I get them to follow me to the door ?
Then suddenly there is actually a room that is closed off that they can go to. A sefarim room. A sukkah room.
I'm not sure what the real issue is here. But I think you'd be doing these guests a favor by telling them you cannot host anymore.

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:46 am

groovy1224 wrote:

This whole scenario of female guests wanting to schmooze after the meal is a figment of my imagination? I am imagining my health issues and DH's discomfort? Ok, let's go with that. How do I get the imaginary guests to leave the table?

I think there is no solution except to not let them come. I was hoping someone could come up with workable solution which no one has.

amother

Oak

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:48 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You've been provided with multiple workable suggestions.

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:51 am

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

Bisque,
It's idiotic to argue with you.

amother

Maroon

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:52 am

At this point, it is obvious op just wants more responses so she can continue to argue. She has been given advice for both hosting as well as for how to tell guests that she is unable to host. But she ignores both and keeps focusing on silly side details. No point in trying to explain things to someone who isn't really interested. Either this is social cluelessness or someone who gets pleasure out of winding posters up. It's so obvious.

amother

Green

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:56 am

Op, I'm sorry for the unnecessary rudeness of some posters.
I do think you got some good advice - especially from the poster who suggested preparing dessert in a different area. Just say, "Dessert is in x room for you to enjoy. Dh likes to have some quiet learning time after the meal, so it would be great if you can hang out there. I'd love to stay and shmooze, but I'm too exhausted and look forward to talking to all of you tomorrow."
If this seems hard to say, maybe you need to explore being more assertive in general and not worrying so much about offending others when you're saying sth completely reasonable.
Hope you figure it out. You seem like a really nice, sensitive person.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 10:56 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You've been given lots of suggestions. Mine, just to repeat, is to have your husband retire to the library (with the other gentlemen, if applicable). But if you want to check out early and he wants to stay at the table, you're not leaving your guests anywhere but their beds. Which is not very hospitable.

So just decide what matters most to you. Is it:
1. Being able to leave the table even in the middle of the meal?
2. Having dh stay at the table as long as he wants, with only male company?
3. Providing a comfortable atmosphere for your guests?

At best, you can only have two of these three choices at any given time.

SixOfWands

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:00 am

chestnut wrote:

That's what I'm getting. That the women don't get the signal to get up because even when OP leaves, there are plenty of people sitting around and shmoozing. I'm also left to wonder if some of the people sitting around and shmoozing are women, albeit women who are married to the men who are also there.

If he just want to learn -- alone -- for a bit, its easy shmeasy. When OP leaves to go upstairs, he says that he's going to see her up to make sure she's OK, then he'll be learning in the library (aka sefarim room). They're welcome to hang out in the dining room, living room, whatever (or see themselves out if not sleeping guests), the lights go out at time, Shabbat Shalom.

Last edited by SixOfWands on Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total

DrMom

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:00 am

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Let x = bedroom

"Your dessert is a nice chocolate on your pillow. Please go directly to your room. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200. Goodnight!"

groovy1224

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:11 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm trying to reconcile why a reasonable person would allow multiple posters to offer advice when they obviously don't have the full picture. They're telling you to show them out, which obviously won't work because they are SLEEPING IN YOUR HOUSE but you said nothing for 3 pages.

How is saying 'We'd love to have you, just please know that DH needs the dining room after the meal because he learns there. You're welcome to chill in the ______ room, or in your room, though' not a workable solution? They don't have to know that it's a male/female issue, just leave it out.

chestnut

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:13 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Yep. I also wonder if the kids are around. Somehow, female guests have to magically understand they aren't wanted around when the wife leaves but everyone else is still continuing the meal. I'm afraid it's not the guests that are "clueless" here.

In short, seeing that the OP is very set on not having them there without her supervision, I do think it's better not to invite them.

(I'd also like to know some background info - big frum community or oot small one, if the guests are BT, at risk, OTD, much more modern, not frum, etc.)

groovy1224

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:16 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Or just don't have those other guests on Friday night, have them shabbos day when this isn't an issue.

amother

Oak

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:18 am

From what I've read - OP only has these guests because she "feels bad".

If she can convince herself that there is no possible way for these guests to be in her home to the comfort of her husband, she won't 'feel bad' not to have them as guests.

Being direct with the guests about her husband's needs isn't an option.

amother

Bisque

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:19 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I thought you wanted them off the couches.