Clueless guests | Imamother

urban gypsy

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:43 pm

watergirl wrote:

If that truly is the case, then I will say that I firmly believe that sometimes, we have to feel bad. No one likes to feel bad. And yet sometimes its necessary. The feeling passes. Say no if you want to say no and move on. Utilize self-talk as needed to drive the message home that its ok to say no and I can say no and still be a good person. Saying no when I want to say no means that when I say YES, I can truly make it a great experience for all involved. Wash, rinse, repeat as needed. I learned this the hard way through therapy and life and let me tell you how GOOD it feels once you empower yourself to say no when you want to. The bad feelings go away. I'll say it again - ITS OK TO SAY NO!

I agree with you completely, but I do think that my solution of making a bit of effort to help them find alternate accommodations will be a big mitzvah and make OP feel better about the situation.

amother

Oak

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:43 pm

watergirl wrote:

Of course - but its not OK to blame the 'NO' on the guests whose only crime is not understanding OP (and her husband's) social conventions.

groovy1224

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:48 pm

The title should really be edited because it seems that OP's guests aren't the only clueless ones. I don't think anyone here has a clue what the problem actually is.

watergirl

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:48 pm

urban gypsy wrote:

I agree with you completely, but I do think that my solution of making a bit of effort to help them find alternate accommodations will be a big mitzvah and make OP feel better about the situation.

Thanks. And I saw your advise and I agree in theory, but OP said in a past post in this thread (I think) that she does not have that option, there are not others in her area who will host or who have the space to host.

I think she is being vague intentionally about her situation (thats ok too!). And if I'm right about my suspicions, I believe I know who OP is, and if I'm right, I understand why she cant just find another place for the guests to say, and I understand more about these women. Again, I could be totally off base and wrong about everything. Smile

watergirl

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:50 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Of course - but its not OK to blame the 'NO' on the guests whose only crime is not understanding OP (and her husband's) social conventions.

There is no need to blame a 'no' on anyone. Because its OK to say no! And no blame needed.

urban gypsy

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:51 pm

watergirl wrote:

Yup. Your post is actually the only advice that will solve the *real* underlying problem, but as I am also a socially awkward person with problems saying no to people, I thought I'd throw my option out there as a backup. But the only real way to say no is to own your decision and just say no. The resentment (and in this case Shalom Bayis problems presumably) are really not worth it.

amother

Oak

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:51 pm

watergirl wrote:

If there is no where else for these ladies to go - they must have serious 'guesting' issues beyond not understanding that a living-room/dining-room ("great room") should be vacated once the hostess goes to sleep.

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:52 pm

watergirl wrote:

Which she does to avoid the unpleasant feeling of saying no. Its a desire. We can agree to disagree.

Thank you. I feel bad because these women don't have another place to go.

watergirl

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:53 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Or it can just be that her community does not host in this way. Maybe they are not frum women and her community is not open like she is? We have to be DLKZ here for all parties. We dont have to be anti OP, anti her husband, or anti the single women guests.

groovy1224

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:54 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you. I feel bad because these women don't have another place to go.

I thought the issue was that you *did* want to host- you said you love cooking and hosting- but were trying to reconcile that with DH's tradition of lingering/learning at the table?

This whole time the issue was how to say no nicely?

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:54 pm

groovy1224 wrote:

The title should really be edited because it seems that OP's guests aren't the only clueless ones. I don't think anyone here has a clue what the problem actually is.

Should I edit it to clueless posters/ clueless groovy1224?

urban gypsy

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:55 pm

groovy1224 wrote:

Yes. She's made her choice and needs help executing it.
She loves hosting, but not singles who sit on her dining room couches.

amother

Oak

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:57 pm

watergirl wrote:

I'm not anti anybody. I think OP is looking to pass off her feelings of guilt for not wanting to host these women in her house - onto the women themselves.

Or she just wants to complain.

Seashell

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you. I feel bad because these women don't have another place to go.

So just be open with them about the situation, exactly as you told us. Say, “I love hosting and cooking for you. I need to leave the table early at night bec of health reasons. My husband would feel most comfortable if after I leave you hang out in another room, like the seforim room or Succah room. During the day I’d love to spend more time with you.” The END.

If they’re okay with it they’ll come and stick to your request. If not they’ll choose not to come & you know u tried your best.

urban gypsy

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:58 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

I'm not anti anybody. I think OP is looking to pass off her feelings of guilt for not wanting to host these women in her house - onto the women themselves.

Bingo! But as watergirl said, nobody needs to feel guilty.
Everyone should just do what's right for them.

watergirl

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 12:59 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you. I feel bad because these women don't have another place to go.

I hear ya! But you are wrong. There are always options. They just chose to take the easiest one because you've been so accommodating!
They can:
- Call Chabad for help
- check out shabbat.com and find hosts there
- each of them can make her own meals and invite others to join her! They can sign up on shabbat.com as hosts as well and have a full table also!
- branch out to other communities
- post on facebook for hosts

There are other ways also. Its hard to do something new and strange, and they will be ok. You do not have to step in here. They will be ok if they are not by you for shabbos.

Re: feeling bad - in my opinion, THIS is the issue. You need to learn to sit with the bad feelings until they dissipate. And they will. I promise. You may need to learn about ways to engage self-care. Saying no, feeling bad, letting the bad feelings pass... thats all part of it!

SixOfWands

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:06 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Should I edit it to clueless posters/ clueless groovy1224?

OP, people are really trying to be sympathetic to your health and to your issues, but you seem to be attacking them at every turn. This post in particular, to people who are really trying to help, is uncalled for.

urban gypsy

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:21 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

New idea - ladies including hostess don't retire the couches in the living room.

Don't bother. All she wants is advice on how to reject them, not solutions to her hosting situation in her "totally open floor plan" home