Clueless guests | Imamother

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:07 pm

urban gypsy wrote:

I checked and rainbow dash, Aquamarine, Seagreen, dancingqueen, Bisque, Royalblue, chestnut, creditcards, Oak, sarahmalka, WhatFor, Purple all told you EXACTLY the same thing.....to discuss expectations with your guests ahead of time

I'm glad seashell's post helped but I thought you and your DH "don't do scripts" Rolling Eyes

It's the tone. I left the thread in the middle for some time because of nasty posts like yours. So I may have missed someone else being civil. I was surprised it was still going without any input from me.

oliveoil

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:07 pm

I think this inability to communicate effectively or give pertinent details might be part of OP's health issues. It's frustrating for us, but perhaps we should have compassion for her, and the people in her real life who have to deal with her circular thinking and inability to articulate all the time.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:08 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

They go with their husbands when their husbands go.

Ok, so your dh is fine with learning or socializing with married women at the table. It's just the single ones who are expected to go to bed when you do.

If that's the situation, you really shouldn't invite them over for shabbos. You're giving them the message that single women have the cooties.

oliveoil

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

They go with their husbands when their husbands go.

Finally we get the piece of information we've been asking for since page 1...

groovy1224

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:12 pm

urban gypsy wrote:

I would just like to say for the record that I also suggested this. I thought it was a good idea myself, then OP suggested I was clueless.

groovy1224 wrote:

How is saying 'We'd love to have you, just please know that DH needs the dining room after the meal because he learns there. You're welcome to chill in the ______ room, or in your room, though' not a workable solution? They don't have to know that it's a male/female issue, just leave it out.

amother

Oak

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

When you refer to your guests as "socially clueless" you set the tone.

chestnut

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:12 pm

oliveoil wrote:

Thank you for this reminder. In this case, the OP needs a good script of what to say so that it comes out very clearly to the guests. Maybe via email/text?

urban gypsy

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This is patently false and anyone reading the thread can EASILY see that you were actively responding between these specific posts I've referenced and in some cases directly to them. In any case, next time you could write, "Would someone help me compose a carefully worded script in a gentle tone to set expectations of behaviour with my single guests?" instead of blowing off posters with "I don't use scripts" and then reneging on that when you realize that you've backed yourself into a corner

I'm happy your problem is solved and you should request to lock this thread.

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:14 pm

chestnut wrote:

I asked if the women are BT, not frum, from a much more modern community, OTD, at risk, etc. In all these cases explaining to them he isn't comfortable being in the same room with them without his wife is the way to go. In this case, this thread should have been done 8 pages ago!!
Now, if couples are staying at the table after the OP leaves and these women have to leave only because they are single/divorced (while married are ok to stay there), then it's simply not nice. His right to feel so. Still not nice. Explain it to them and let them make the decision.

I wrote early on that they are modern/BT. Many of these ladies are strangers, so I couldn't tell you if they are at risk or OTD. Some are guests of prior guests.

If they are chatting with married women, there aren't any issues.

urban gypsy

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:14 pm

chestnut wrote:

Thank you for this reminder. In this case, the OP needs a good script of what to say so that it comes out very clearly to the guests. Maybe via email/text?

She doesn't do scripts... unless they are suggested to her in an exceedingly gentle tone

amother

Lavender

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:15 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

Agreed.

There's no difference if you're there or not if there's still other women left at the table. If there's no other women left I understand if you might want to mention that your dh isn't comfortable, but this scenario as it is just doesn't make sense.

(And I come from a very RW background myself.)

urban gypsy

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:16 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

Agreed.

There's no difference if you're there or not if there's still other women left at the table. If there's no other women left I understand to tell them to leave as well, but this scenario as it is just doesn't make sense.

(And I come from a very RW background myself.)

Yet another excellent example of feelings trumping halacha

chestnut

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:17 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

I say, let the guests decide. Maybe they value other aspects of shabbos in the OPs house that they'll overlook this. But yeah, it's quite strange. Communities that don't mingle, don't have married women at the table when the wife leaves for the night. It's about men/women, not single/married women.

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:18 pm

urban gypsy wrote:

Seashells didn't write a script for me. You are particularly antagonistic coming up with ridiculous suggestions that DH leave instead of the guests. Why do you have problems understanding that DH's feelings come waaaay before random strangers in his house?

amother

Oak

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:19 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I couldn't imagine how it was done.

and perhaps the single guests with no husbands to follow to the their bedrooms can't imagine that you leaving to go to sleep signals that they should too.

amother

Oak

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:20 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Are the random strangers making demands of his space - with blatant disregard to his preferences?

chestnut

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:21 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I have no patience checking 10+ pages, but I'm pretty sure you didn't mention they're modern/bt.
Forget about these women for a second. When you leave the table, couples stay, correct? Your husband has no problem with the wives - why? Because they're quiet?
If these women were talking to those wives at the table, without you, it would be OK? It's when they engage in conversations that it becomes a problem?
When they engage in conversation while you are there, it's ok? Once you leave, but other wives are still there, they can't talk to your husband?

Last edited by chestnut on Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

urban gypsy

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:22 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I posted several times asking posters to please stop asking you to defend why your DH doesn't want to leave and to concentrate on helping you communicate with your guests ahead of time, so you're welcome for that

What is it about Seashell's post that was so much better than the many posts before hers saying the same thing, if not for the script aspect?

amother

Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:24 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

He doesn't learn with married women at the table either.

I don't invite over the single ladies. I have no communication with them at all unless they want to come here for Shabbos.