Toddlers, elbows & halacha

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Preschoolers

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blessedjmom

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 5:45 pm

At what age is it halacha to cover a girls elbows? What about knees?
I'd love to hear when you do, and which crowd/circles you belong to.

amother

Maroon

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 5:57 pm

I cover at 3. We’re chassidish

Bobov chassidis covers at 5

amother

Azure

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 5:59 pm

Id like to start around 9,10 years old because Its not even remotely a halacha but a chumra.. but I start at 6 because I live in a development in lkwd and thats the minhag hamakom here and I know that's how the rav of the development holds so I'm not going to be the rebel...

amother

Wine

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 6:05 pm

Never. Meaning I don’t force my daughters to cover these areas. Would describe our family as MO machmir.

amother

Crimson

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 6:10 pm

3 years old. Chabad

amother

Turquoise

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 6:16 pm

RWMO

My girls are in skirts that cover their knees by first grade. Their uniform shirts need to cover their elbows by 4th grade, so we go with that at home too.

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 6:20 pm

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

Never. Meaning I don’t force my daughters to cover these areas. Would describe our family as MO machmir.

This for us as well. Tops need to have a sleeve, so no spaghetti straps or anything like that, but don’t have to cover the elbows completely unless they want to.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 7:29 pm

Lakewood yeshivish in mixed neighborhood. We cover elbows at 6 or 7 depending on when my daughter wants to. I'd love to stay short for longer but she doesn't like being the only one on the block with short sleeves.

sirel

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 7:33 pm

I have them in skirts and some kind of sleeve (any length) around 4.

I think at age 6ish I try to get them skirts that reach somewhere around their knees and sleeves somewhere around the elbows.

At age 8-9 I would only get clothing that really covers all the way.

ectomorph

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 7:36 pm

I would start at 3 and enforce it starting at 6/7. But obviously depending on where we live, minhag hamakom, kids sensory issues.

amother

Plum

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 7:37 pm

Halacha is at bas mitzvah. But everyone has different minhagim and chumras.
We're chassidish, long sleevees somewhere between 4/5 and tights by 7. But now in the summer my girls run around outside without tights just with crocs.

MommyM

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:14 pm

3. Chabad

Rubber Ducky

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:33 pm

5 - 7 seems to be minhag hamakom around Baltimore, which is predominantly an OOT Yeshivish town.

amother

Apricot

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:42 pm

Rubber Ducky wrote:

5 - 7 seems to be minhag hamakom around Baltimore, which is predominantly an OOT Yeshivish town.

Was it always like that here? I've only recently started to notice how many little girls are wearing knee socks- even during the summer. Is that a recent thing or was I just oblivious to it before?

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:48 pm

Halacha is the same for everyone. 12 years old. Various groups do different things.

pesek zman

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:53 pm

I don’t understand minhag hamakom at all. Im RW MO and live in a community that is diverse, with many to the left of us. To me it’s about doing what you do, no matter where you live. That’s how I’ve always operated. For us that means my 4 year old still wears pants and short sleeves (but no sleeveless) but I’ll probably age her out of pants when she starts first grade. If we move somewhere to the left of us, is minhag hamakom literally doing what is done in your community? Or only if what the community does is to the right of where you are?

amother

Seashell

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:57 pm

pesek zman wrote:

Minhag hamakom applies in a place where there are more or less clear community norms. Of course you can do things to a higher standard, but the idea is to not do things to a lower standard or just completely differently from what the community norms are. Many large cities don't have a minhag hamakom when it comes to modesty standards.

sky

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 11:00 pm

Yeshivish. Lotvish. 6 or 7. Around when starting school.

At 3 we just stop sleeveless.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 11:01 pm

At 6, I buy my daughters mostly tznius (elbows, knees, knee socks even) and make a big deal that she's practicing for when she's big. She'll still go, for example, swimming with brothers/cousins and her cover up is short sleeves and thigh length, she'll still have some clothes that are short sleeved, sleeveless even for night gowns that she lounges around in, short socks with shabbos outfits. I've found that introducing it gradually like this makes there be virtually no pressure. Its a matter of what's in her drawer amd the initial excitement of dressing "big".

For what its worth, my girls sre in bya day camp and most girls dont wear cover elbows till 4th ir 5th grade.

Im a mix of yeshivish and yeshivish lite/modern yeshivish, if that matters and my daughters go to drav meir but my sons are in a far more yeshivish, simple school.

sky

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 11:03 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Halacha is the same for everyone. 12 years old. Various groups do different things.

Some groups hold men can’t see parts of a girl from younger then 12. Just like negia (between 3-11) and yichud (3 yrs) is younger then 12. But depends on the crowd.
I’ll allow my daughter until 7 to go into the men’s side. But in a Chasidishe shul only until 3. Because they are careful from that she.

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