Kids were sent home

amother

Gray

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 12:59 am

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

Sorry if this question sounds insensitive, but were you told beforehand that this would happen? In my kids' school, we get a note that if your tuition isn't paid, your children will not be let into the classroom/sent home. So if parents know this and send the kids anyway - you cannot blame the school. You knew it would happen-you shouldn't have sent them.

The Torah teaches us that to humiliate someone is like killing them. If chas v'shalom the school said the same thing, but said they'd kill instead of kicking out, would you still say it's justified because there was warning?

Surrendered

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 1:00 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

U have resources to all yeshivas before I out myself? I dono if I'm comfortable. I wish someone can talk kn my behalf, and work out some sort of plan etc, no charities just small pmnta until we settle. But who knows, maybe ur my cousin, neighbor, aunt?? Can't Believe It

Hi again OP,
As I mentioned before, please don't be embarrassed to reach out to me. I feel for you and want to help you in whichever way I can. If we happen to know each other, I will have more of a feeling to do whatever I can to help out, you will still stay anonymous. Don't be so afraid... Hug

amother

Emerald

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 1:15 am

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

Amother goldenrod, a school is not supposed to keep kids there for free. If the father has no job, he should nicely get a job. And so should the mom. A school has to see that parents are at least trying.
A school is run like a business.

Jetblack, your post is highly insensitive and full of judgment.
I wish for you to NEVER be in such a position. Many times fathers are out of a job for reasons beyond their control. Not because they don't wanna work, but because of unfortunate circumstances that happen.
It's rude to say- Let them get a job. And she should too...
You can never know if he was laid off from his job and keeps trying to get a job- anything, and cannot find another suitable position or going for 100s of interviews and not being hired...
The most successful people and workoholics find themselves in this situation.
Please count your words and be abit more sensitive to others feelings, especially when you don't know what they're going through. Don't judge why he doesn't have a job, or just cant make ends meet.

amother

Tan

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 4:15 am

honeymoon wrote:

Good points, but never should children have to suffer because of things that are out of their control. Their parents' mistakes, finances, stupidity, dysfunction, ego, or arrogance should stay the parents' problem. Involving the kids and using them as pawns is unfair and possibly traumatic.

Most parents are mature adults with whom you can discuss things in a civil manner. The school can work out a payment plan with the parents. Or they can offer a steep discount. Or they can forgo payment for the time being. Whatever works. But the kids should have the ability to learn and grow in a safe environment without their parents' issues shadowing their blissful childhood.

That's not how life works though.
Children suffer from their parents decisions.
The mother is overwhelmed but keeps having kids.. who suffers? The kids.
The parents drink too much , it affects the kids.
The parents have a psychological illness.. it affects the kids.
The parents are poor, it affects the kids.

You can't let kids live in a bubble. They inherit the social standing of the family.
It's the parents responsibility to not send their child to school, if they know that the school has such a policy if tuition isn't paid.
If you can't afford private school, either apply for a scholarship or tuition break, or homeschool, or send your kid to public school.
Those are the options. If you send your kids to private school without paying the bills, you'll have to accept that they'll be humiliated. That's on you as the parent who thought they'd get away with it.
If you send you kid to a supermarket and tell them to bring home food but don't give them money and they get caught, they'll be humiliated aswell. Is it the policeman or detectives fault or yours?

amother

Tan

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 4:38 am

baby12x wrote:

I love all the posters who say "just get a job".
Its not that easy.

Signed,
Someone who has been unemployed, have my Master's degree and applied for many, many positions and had a hard time finding a job. I still don't know what I would have done differently. It was from Hashem that I have my job now.

Daven hard that you are never in the position to know of such things

It's not always easy to find a job, it can't always be the job you really wanted. Sometimes you have to take a job that you don't really like, just so you can pay your bills. Some people are not willing to settle for a job like that.

Also people who are poor can't live like people who are wealthy.
They can't afford the same clothes, houses, vacations and schools. It's tough but that's the reality. And it's wrong to make kids feel like their entitled to have those things. If the father and mother can't find a job , the kids will also have to live with the consequences.
We were poor for the longest time. And I told our kids that we can't afford what others have. And we aren't entitled to it either.
My husband and I have worked very hard to get out of poverty and now we are able to buy nice things, go on nice vacations etc.

yerushamama

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 6:02 am

A Jewish education should not be viewed as a luxury. It is vital to give our kids a proper Jewish education. I don't understand how and why yeshiva tuitions have become so expensive that almost every family needs at least some amount of financial aid, but that is the reality that we have to deal with.

But that isn't OP's point. Humiliating kids over something beyond their control is WRONG! There are always other ways to handle things.

We had a similar situation with our kids one year, where we thought the school was getting tuition by automatic monthly transfers, but at some point it got cancelled (bank blames the school, school blames our bank...) and we were unaware until we got a call at the end of the year that if we don't pay up within a week, our kids won't get their report cards. We tried, but weren't able to come up with the full amount so fast, so we told our kids not to expect their report cards, and an age appropriate explanation of the situation. One teacher spoke to my daughter quietly on the side, telling her that her report card "wasn't ready", an older daughter was shown her report card when she went in to receive it, and the teacher told her that she was told not to give it to her (but didn't say why), but my youngest daughter came home crying. Her teacher had told her, in front of the whole class that since her parents refused to pay the tuition, she wouldn't be getting her report card! We called the school and complained, and they apologized, but even now, 9 years later, my daughter dreads report card day.

baby12x

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 6:29 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

And sometimes even jobs you would settle for aren't offered to you.
Have you ever been turned down a job because you're over-qualified? Or for any other reason?
Trust me, I am a big believer in living within your means and frugal living. I am the least entitled person. I even blog about it😀

BUT, sometimes someone isnt looking for advice or judgement. Sometimes really terrible things happen to good people who work really hard and don't waste their money and when those people come for sympathy than to knock them down is cruel.
And to give advice such as "find a job" is naive, privileged and hurtful.
If you don't know what I'm talking about then maybe instead of feeling holier than thou accept that MAYBE its not all your own hard work that brought you to where you are. Maybe, just maybe, there is a G-d who helped you get where you are and He can just as easily take it all away. B"h for the opportunities that He has given us to be able to work hard and pull ourselves out of poverty

amother

Peach

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 7:32 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

Right, and they shouldn't afford tuition either Twisted Evil

. Definitely, they should just stay home and when they go OTD because of the way they were treated, we should start collecting for all kinds of therapy and intervention...

So glad you worked hard and you are now able to afford nice things. There's a posuk about people like you:

כחי ועצם ידי עשו לי את החיל הזה. י

amother

Tan

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 7:42 am

baby12x wrote:

Agree. And we are very thankful for what we have. We also know how much work we put into it though. We didn't sit around taking tzedaka and prayed a perfect job would come along. I even cleaned houses at some point even though I have 2 degrees. The fact that I found a great wellpaid job now is a gift from heaven. But noone can tell me that they can't find a cleaning job or a babysitter job etc. They just don't want those jobs because they're "beneath them". And also why take such a job if you can easily get tzedaka instead?

FranticFrummie

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 7:53 am

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

I seriously hope that you never come down with a mysterious virus that destroys your central nervous system, makes you ache from head to toe, and makes you constantly exhausted no matter how much rest you get. Imagine the damage from that virus is permanent, and years after the virus has left your system, you still feel sick for the rest of your life.

I used to work 60 hours a week, and loved ever minute of it. I was, and still am, a very Type A personality, and it KILLS me that I can't work.

Also, I hope you never have to deal with a wealthy but abusive husband. I hope you don't have to make decisions about your future and the future of your kids based on money. Do you stay with your abuser in order to pay tuition, or do you escape, get a healthy life, and struggle to stay ahead of your bills every month?

I really wish I had your life. It sounds so nice, and the answers are all so simple. We should all be so lucky - but the truth is, no everyone has it as good as you do.

amother

Blush

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 7:58 am

amother [ Gray ] wrote:

The school told them not to send their kids or they would be sent home. The parents sent anyways? Now the parents are using their kids as pawns. Their shame is the parents fault not the schools. This is the same as the unvaccinated kids who were sent back to school even though the school said not to. Are you calling the school's bluff? How could the PARENT do that to the kid!

amother

Fuchsia

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:01 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

I'm not referring to the OP when I write this, but as a school administrator this has been my experience in my school. The people who really don't have the money and really have life situations that don't allow them to pay tuition fully (chronic illness, chronic unemployment, single parents, other complex life circumstances) are upfront about it and a payment plan that works for them is set up. The people who could find the money but don't want to are the ones who never show up to their tuition meetings, if they do they will give a card that declines on the first payment or checks that all bounce, they scream and yell about how we value money over their children and they use their children as a human shield. We never take a child out of class, in a situation where someone needs to be sent home we'll take them during lunch and we give some ridiculous reason without telling the child it's because of money. A school can't function on nothing, we don't get much government funding at all, basically just textbooks and milk (not in NYC) we do have extensive fundraising but tuition is an important part of the budget. Parents who don't prioritize paying for chinuch make administrators look heartless but really we don't have a choice.

thunderstorm

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:14 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

There is also a group of parents whos husbands are working sometimes multiple jobs and feel too ashamed to admit how bad the financial situation is. They have no money for food, live in tiny apartments, get threatening shut off letters from the utility companies every few weeks and don’t have any credit left on their credit cards because they spent their $40,000 of credit on paying tuition previously with no means of paying it off. Those people are people like me. I went through it. And the administrator just didn’t believe my DH. I’m not sure what lie he was convinced he’s saying. But we never went on vacation, or spent money on anything besides basics like shampoo and soap and pampers and wipes and some food. There are a few bad apples who do have the means to pay and don’t. Those people are usually not the ones that feel extreme shame when their kids are sent home. Those people are the ones that yell and scream , while the ones that truly can’t pay are left with even deeper embarrassment, shame and have to suffer in silence while their kids have to go through the embarrassment as well.
I have had kids in different schools. Some had all out nasty and cold administrators that would not even accept a payment plan . It was an all or nothing game. And in other schools the administrators were extra careful not to cause added shame to an already bad matzav. There are ways to handle things in a kind manner as well. Some people have a hard time accepting that.

amother

Peach

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:16 am

I just want to add that when I was in school, the school regularly sent home girls who's parents were behind on tuition. I was never one of them, even though I knew for a fact that my parents were definitely behind on my tuition. The girl who got sent home? The girl who's parents went on frequent vacations, had a nice house, etc. etc. I don't know if this is the standard across the board, but I've noticed that most schools and yeshivos are reasonable and understand when the parents are truly trying but just don't have. Unfortunately, there are always exceptions, and it's these exceptions who make it onto this board Twisted Evil

.

And to be honest a kollel man who owes $70,000 in tuition and who doesn't want to work (did he look for a job? Maybe he couldn't find anything?) sounds a little over the top. And I believe in the kollel system.

amother

Papaya

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:25 am

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

Don't see why school would do it without making profit. Didn't appreciate that my daughter had it.

Yes because school administrators are here to help your child regardless if you appreciate it or not. BTW, school administrators are working their life off for you in more ways than you will ever know & appreciate. I have a close relative who is a school administrator, the horror stories, how parents are unresponsble for their own children is mind boggling.
I don't question the op, but I'm sure their is a missing piece to the story that she's not aware of.