Spinoff- how many kids do u have

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amother

Magenta

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 5:32 pm

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

So basically the people who have more kids than they can afford have a bit of a communist attitude- like, it's ok to help myself to the family pot, because it's all in the family, kind of thing. And people I am taking from should be happy about it since I am doing them a huge favor by producing all of these children I can't afford to raise

Wow. This is interesting. And a very unique way of looking at and living life. And I'm not sure it's at all hashkafically sound, although I don't know. Since it's literally the first time I've encountered this attitude and approach to life

Wrong. The people you are talking about are humble enough to say I can’t make plans for what’s going to be in 20 years from now but if having a baby makes sense right now.... let’s not take away from the fact that it is a mitzva to have kids....

saralem

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 5:37 pm

Smh. I can’t believe some people actually think they run the world. Sorry—that’s Hashem’s job. If I would have waited until we could “afford” kids, I would have likely been too old to have them. Should only wealthy people have kids? Well, that would solve all the tuition issues. Oh my, what happens when the wealthy one finds himself in difficult financial times? Should he put a few of his kids up for adoption??? Puleeeze. This is not yiddishkeit.

amother

Wheat

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 5:53 pm

If I were to wait until I was financially stable I'd never have had even one kid. Yet here I am with a large family and sailing afloat BH... Hashem provides.
If I had less kids I'd have less money or more bills and my tuition problems would be exactly the same. I've actually seen this with my own eyes in my life. Believe in Hashem it makes life a lot easier!

amother

Lilac

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 5:58 pm

To the posters above- nobody would say that people shouldn't have any children because of finances. The question is should people have large (whether that means 8, 10, or 15 kids) knowing they will almost certainly depend on tzedaka to survive.

amother

Mistyrose

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 5:59 pm

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

Humble is not the word.

amother

Bronze

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 6:15 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Is that a proven fact? If we break up the number of tzedakah recipients, are the dollar amounts disproportionately given to larger families?

amother

Puce

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 6:25 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

So you're saying this doesn't apply to you because even though you k'h have a large family, you're still a giver. That's obviously not the case with most large families. Most large families have boxed themselves in a financial corner where they can only take. Just look how many threads there are here with people desperate for money.

What??? Because some ppl have financial difficulties, that doesn't mean large families boxed themselves into financial corner. I know plenty of ppl with large families who are WORKING HARD and EARNING BIG.

Of course not all hard workers earn big, and all is up to Hashem (imas, cap your H, BTW when spelling Hashem), but there are plenty of parents of large families who are successful at it, just as there are plenty of parents of smaller families who earn big.

Why do you have to tie the two together? Two separate issues.

And many ppl here who post about their tuition or other financial issues don't necessarily state that they have many kids. For all you know, they may have 2 or 3.

ectomorph

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 6:36 pm

The purpose of life is to do mitzvos.

Giving and taking are the means to that goal.

More children equals more potential for mitzvos.

dancingqueen

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 6:37 pm

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

We can go into that on another thread but please don’t compare holy neshamos that serve Hashem to kids who statistically end up on the streets doing drugs.

Wow. This attitude causes so much anti-semitism.

Debbie

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 6:47 pm

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

We can go into that on another thread but please don’t compare holy neshamos that serve Hashem to kids who statistically end up on the streets doing drugs.

This might come as a bit of a shock,but Jewish people don't actually have a monopoly on serving G-d and sadly it is not unheard of for holy neshamos to be caught up in the world of drugs.

DREAMING

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 7:52 pm

simba wrote:

I don’t like it. The key to children and Panassa is held by Hashem.

If parents feel they can emotionally and mentally raise children they should go have more. I agree that it’s not a Torah value to go on bc for financial reasons?
If you disagree please explain how much it costs to raise a child and if you make sure to have that in savings before you go off BC?

Frum schools and communities should subsidize tuition for families that need. They used to fundraise.

If this OP is the way Torah Jews would live we will soon look like Europe. No babies.

This!

simba

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 7:59 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

The question to whom exactly?

Hashem doesn’t give everyone who has zex a child. If he decided this couple should have one I’ll take it as a sign that they should.

The audacity of those having opinions of other people’s family size is sad.

May Hashem give us all what we need. May we never have to ask for help from others.

amother

Mustard

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:08 pm

To the person who posted this thread originally,

I hightly suggest that you go see a mental health professional, because you seem to have an abnormal need to be in controll.

Forget about being in controll over your own situation, no one asked you about how many kids you are having and if you can afford them. That is your choice!!!

But why are you so busy with what other people are doing????

Do you feel inadequate because you are not capable of doing that?
Do you feel less then them because their level for bitochon in Hashem is so much greater?
Is there something else going on in your life that bothers you so much and you are therefore looking to blame your bad feelings on someone else?

FYI: I come from a big family..., More than 15 kids k'h...
I had a beautiful upbringing!!!!!!
Parents are b'h unbelievable.
When thinking about my youth I think I have much much better memories than most of my friends!
And yes, my father did always pay tuition on time and always mentioned that Hashem has his ways and just helped him always at the right time.

No, we were not wealthy...My friends might have had nice clothes, or more expensive stuff...
But we were clean, growing up in a very healthy environment, we did not feel any less then our friends.

Can I say that I will be as capable as my parents??? I don't know... I take it child by child... and if I feel that I need time I see that a lot of rabbonim are very lenient today and understand that we are not as strong as the previous generation.

But finances - that comes totally from Hashem...

I am young and I myself have seen enough times were you have wealthy people that become poor overnight...

Take it child by child, birth by birth and definitely don't think that you are in controll!!!!!!!

And you my dear friend, please try to do some introspection if you have that extreem need to controll others in other situations as well....

My advise, go talk to someone...

Life is a privilege!!!!

If a couple has a functioning household and feels capable of bringing another Yiddishe Neshomo into this world ----- ASHRECHO!!!!!!

Did you then forget who the third partner is????

You and your husband are partners, but Hashem is the main partner and guarantor that ultimately decided to bring this child or children into this world and he takes better care of his children than the wealthiest and nicest parents in the world!!!!!

Food for thought...

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:12 pm

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

I happen to agree with OP and would like to ask those who disagree with her what they think of non Jews who are on welfare and continue to have multiple kids?

There are 2 separate issues here. The OP said she was referring specifically to financial struggles caused by exorbitant tuition bills.

A family can be in the top 5% of all earners in the US and still struggle to pay all their bills with tuition, even with a supposedly moderate (whatever that means) family size. What's relevant here is the tuition crisis.

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:15 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

OP- I have a question for u, my mom had 11 kids. Is that too many? My fathers parents always paid a the grandkids tuition...

I'm guessing you don't think so - certainly not if you're #11.

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

do you mean to tell me that most of the people who live in the tristate area who have 6 plus kids are making 160-250k? and that im way overestimating the people who dont earn anything near that but still keep having more and more kids? I would say 50 percent of people with large families are not pulling in that income, and thats what one needs to pay a bulk (with scholarships too) of tuition. so yes if someone is making nowhere near that but has no problem with having more and more kids I think that is irresponsible to the schools and communities who will have to absorb the costs. I am not talking about people who dedicate their lives to klei kodesh, to people who both parents work hard and were managing until a crisis like being fired or a health crisis or a sick child. I am simply talking about people who make nothing at all near what it takes to raise a large family and see no problem with that.

My accountant said that a frum family with 4 or 5 kids in yeshiva earning $150k per year is "an ani v'evyon", and that this is not a living wage for a frum family. I have no idea what the percentages are but yes, I think you are way underestimating people's income. It's an absurd situation, aka, the tuition crisis.

Laiya

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:24 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

We stopped at 2 and sent to public school. I would have LOVED to have more. Being responsible sucks.

Do you feel it is your responsibility as orthodox Jews to provide your children with a Jewish education?

amother

Brunette

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:29 pm

Laiya wrote:

Do you feel it is your responsibility as orthodox Jews to provide your children with a Jewish education?

Judgemental much?

chasdie Hashem

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:31 pm

If it’s bashert for s/o to have 100000$ of expenses he will have it REGARDLESS how many kids they have
1 child can sometimes need more financial care than 5 kids & Hashem has his ways how much you’ll be making that month....
Leave it up to Hashem ~ HES in charge..He’s running the world since b4 we were born ...

Laiya

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 8:33 pm

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

Judgemental much?

The poster was implying that she is being responsible by sending her children to public school. But the posters here who she is addressing, believe that it is a frum parent's responsibility to give their children a Jewish education. So she comes across as trading one responsibility for another.

Last edited by Laiya on Wed, Aug 07 2019, 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total

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