Spinoff- how many kids do u have

amother

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 11:39 am

Kiwi13 wrote:

Another point - how do you judge a couple who tried for one baby they could afford and ended up with twins or triplets? Do they not deserve financial aid because they should have considered the possible chances of having a multiple pregnancy? Do you see how little we actually have control over?

dont misquote me. obviously I am not referring to extenuating circumstances such as twins or triplets. or an emergency situation such as a provider who was fired. but generally speaking, this post is about people who just have no plan, no degrees, no real career path and just keep having kids when they are simply not financially managing even scholarships from schools. I think that its irresponsible whoever disagrees is entitled to their opinion. if you will put yourself in a situation that is doomed (barring a nes) then dont complain when you feel the stress! thats all. think things through and have some semblance of a plan, not saying every dollar has to be lined up. but there should be some kind of cheshbon.

Kiwi13

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 11:43 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think you are waaaaaay underestimating the number of families who tried their best, acted responsibly within the context of their values and beliefs, and fell on hard times. Every time an actual situation is related, you exclude it from your OP as an exception. I think maybe you’re not realizing that the MAJORITY of families needing help fit within your “exceptions.”

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 11:48 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I would consider 4-5 normal and 6-7 and above quite large when you cannot afford it

I haven't read through the whole thread but trying to understand, you're saying it's ok to have 4-5 children cuz that's a normal size family size, regardless of if you financially can afford the tuition down the road, but not more than that because then it becomes irresponsible??
Or just have one kid cuz that's all the tuition you can afford at this point in your life or no kids at all if you can't even afford that?

amother

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 11:53 am

Kiwi13 wrote:

do you mean to tell me that most of the people who live in the tristate area who have 6 plus kids are making 160-250k? and that im way overestimating the people who dont earn anything near that but still keep having more and more kids? I would say 50 percent of people with large families are not pulling in that income, and thats what one needs to pay a bulk (with scholarships too) of tuition. so yes if someone is making nowhere near that but has no problem with having more and more kids I think that is irresponsible to the schools and communities who will have to absorb the costs. I am not talking about people who dedicate their lives to klei kodesh, to people who both parents work hard and were managing until a crisis like being fired or a health crisis or a sick child. I am simply talking about people who make nothing at all near what it takes to raise a large family and see no problem with that.

mig100

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 11:53 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

op what exactly is bothering you and what are you trying to suggest? I can think of 2 things

1) high school grads being encouraged to spend time and energy persuing well -paying career

2) people not having "too many" kids

I think your op is focusing on #2. if you would focus on #1 I think it would make a more interesting discussion and you would get less attacks.

amother

Magenta

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 11:57 am

Op- I can’t help but laughing at the narrow mindedness here.
Do you really think that anyone starts out life thinking that they will be poor forever?

Do you really think that everyone can have life planned out when they get married and stick with this for the next 60 years?

95% of people have some sort of idea of what they want to do financially but ultimately if you do or don’t plan the outcome is the same- it’s exactly what Hashem had planned for you. Wether it’s regards to how many kids you have, what you can handle physically and your financial situation.

If you made the decision that for you 4 kids is what you can afford and you have been blessed to afford this kids- thank Hashem every minute of the day and stop judging everyone else.

And just as a ps, if I think that everyone is entitled to one kid and any more is financially irresponsible- 4 is already crazy- does that give me the right to judge you?
How about if I decide 8 kids is normal and more than that is already irresponsible does that give you the right to judge me????

amother

Blonde

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 11:58 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

this thread is not about you.
I am not talking about you. you seem to have fallen on hard times and a bad situation, (if you arent managing because of your husbands business you may want to question why you would choose to get pregnant? I know I would have worked at least prt time until things were more stable) I am not trying to cause you pain but there should be less of a victim mentality and more of a proactive response. of course I dont think everyones life should be planned out perfectly and you need to be wealthy to have kids or even pay full tuitionbut if one is drowning financially to the point where they cant work any pyments out with the school then shouldnt one not create a situation that is only going to get worse? until things stabilize? sorry u r gng thru wat u r.

And what if I tell u that this happened within the last 2 years and my kids are much older than that???
Do you have a vision of your future?? Cuz I don't.
And who said I'm not looking for a part time or even a full time job??
Ur mindframe is very very secular and it's a real negative viewpoint from a jews perspective. Out mothers and grandparents never thought abt kids this way!!

You should be less judgemental and start thanking hashem more that u don't and can't even understand others that are going through a hard time.

I wish you lots of siyata dishmaya that your life should work out according to your blueprint, cuz most of ours don't!!

Kiwi13

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 11:59 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

That’s quite a lot to expect the average family to earn. The tristate area is expensive even for being single, let alone married with ANY number of kids. I’m not exactly sure what you’re hoping to get from this thread. Is 20 kids ideal for most people? No. Is 0 kids ideal for most families? Also no. Most families fall somewhere in the middle. I don’t think it’s up to you to judge if 7 is too many, or if 1 is too few, or if any number is anything for anyone else but yourself.

amother

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 12:02 pm

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

again, I have nothing against 8 kids! if you can afford it. chances are that most people cannot remotely afford the costs of tuition for 7-8 kids, understandably. if you cannot remotely afford it that is a very large burden to put on others.

amother

Magenta

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 12:08 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So what your trying to say is up to 4 kids you can have no problem but more that that you need a cheshbon?

unexpected

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 12:09 pm

I really don't intend to derail the thread but I just want to point out that if the new regulations get passed in NY, tuition in the chassidish/yeshivish community is about to go waay up. I am now paying 60,000 yearly for 10 children ka"h in the school system. This is full tuition where I live. If the schools lose their govt funding we will all be in gehakte tzuros

amother

Khaki

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 1:18 pm

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

And here's the dichotomy.

The same schools- and Rabbonim in these communities-that are sending kids home, are also promoting the following education:

Birth control is only for dire emergencies
It's a mitzva to have as many children as possible
Finances aren't a reason to limit family size
Hashem will provide more money for each child
If you have bitachon, you shouldn't worry about money
If you limit your family size, you are lazy, selfish, or lacking in bitachon

Oh, and pay your tuition bill, or else

Yes this is the idea I grew up with and its true

amother

Rose

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 1:30 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank G-d there are plenty of people in klal Yisroel who are willing to share the burden of large families who can't afford to pay full tuition. Hashem provides for every one of those 7-8 children. Sometimes He gives the money directly to the parents, and sometimes to other generous Yidden with big hearts.

amother

Pewter

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 1:39 pm

I have 4 kids. My tuition bill for next year is about $45,000, this is after scholarship. Our combined income is almost 200k pre tax. We struggle to pay our bills. We share one car, which isn't easy where I live. No cleaning help or vacations.

I don't understand how large families in my neighborhood live. I guess they are all on government programs and cash paying jobs

What bothers me the most is when someone comes collecting saying that have 10,14 kids and need money. I don't get it. What happened after #6 when you saw you cant afford to pay your bills.

There are so many people that need real help. I know someone that found an amazing school for her kid in a different country. Her tuition is insanely expensive, yet there is no where for her to get help. I know someone else that is going to a Dr that's out of network, no originization will help because it's for mental health.

ShishKabob

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 1:49 pm

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

So what your trying to say is up to 4 kids you can have no problem but more that that you need a cheshbon?

I loved this post!
I think we really should be more responsible about having large families. We should all make sure that we are guaranteed a government job that provides the best health coverage with dental btw, and with a pension and then we should go and start having our children.
Boy will bonei Olam need to do more fundraising, will you care to contribute?

amother

Aquamarine

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 1:51 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

Well, that was definitely a cheshbon for me in taking a government job!

amother

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 3:17 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

I completely agree. my life is not planned out either but I feel like I am doing hishtadlus by not just having kids on a whim and letting hashem provide. We have to cheshbon what our plan is. if one blindly trusts in hashem with no real plan at all, you would probably not see people struggling the way they do and people with ten kids running from gemach to gemach to make a wedding or living off credit cards.

amother

Apricot

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 3:22 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

What is the hashkafa that your family lines-up with?

amother

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 3:24 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

no what ends up happening is that the working parents who have less kids (who are not rich) spend a fortune on tuition because the school needs to run and pay their staff. if you have a bunch of kids that you cant afford and schools are giving you drastic breaks, its in someone elses cheshbon. and because others just think "it all works out" these responsible, working parents with less kids are absorbing the costs which is completely not fair and not tzedaka.

amother

Bronze

Tue, Aug 06 2019, 3:28 pm

Well, OP, I have 9 wonderful children. I can't afford tuition.

I am being irresponsible, right?

I know for a fact that the world would turn over to raise 2 million for me if one of my kids was sick, but because I need help with tuition, I should have turned down the opportunity of brightening the world with these delicious little people?

Who knows if YOUR next child wouldn't be the one to discover a cure for cancer, or to solve the tuition crisis?

I'm getting the feeling that you would prefer to eradicate "the poor" altogether. Because being a taker is selfish, entitled, and unnecessary. Well, aside for the fact that Hashem created the world with givers and takers.