My sister needs an intervention

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amother

Chocolate

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 9:05 pm

Hi op
You mentioned that this is not your sisters personality from birth. And that she’s an extremely difficult person to be around along with some other points. I’m not sure if what I’m about to say is helpful so if it isn’t-please disregard. I have a very close family member who became an extremely difficult person to be around. Fighting with family a lot. Never thinking (s)he was wrong. Very temperamental. And it was just so not that persons personality to be like that.. To make a long story short my family member went for an eye checkup before getting new glasses. And the eye doctor said you need to see a neurologist ASAP
That family member had a brain tumor called a meningioma. It was the size of a golf ball and had been growing there for over 20 years! The doctor asked the spouse how the patients personality was. The meningioma was suppressing the part of the brain that dealt with personality. Bh it was non cancerous. And once it was removed, between 6 months to a year later, my relatives old personality was back. It’s not perfect but the relative is aware of past mistakes and has been working hard to rebuild and reconnect...I am not chv saying this is the scenario! But you did mention it getting worse and that plus behavior stuck out to me....
I wish you much Hatzlocha and clarity in whatever you decide to do. I’m sure it isn’t easy to watch your nieces and nephews suffer...

oliveoil

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 9:43 pm

I'm also confused.

We have post after post on this site from ppl wishing someone had stepped in when they were kids.

We have imamothers recommending calling CPS in all kinds of benign situations.

But when someone says "my sister never has any loving interactions with her children. Other than yelling, she doesn't seem to engage with them at all. I'm worried," everyone tells her off and insists she leave the situation alone.

This is insanity.

oliveoil

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 9:48 pm

To add to my previous post, do I know exactly what you should do? I do not. But you are the perfect person to do something. This is not a healthy way for kids to grow up. It is extremely damaging.

I would say:

a) consult with a smart, experienced professional about what would be the right course of action.

b) studies show that one person - a teacher, aunt, other caring adult - can make all the difference to kids in this situation. Ie, take 2 kids who are not getting what they need at home, but one has a caring adult in another part of their life - that single factor can put that child on an entirely different trajectory to the kid who has no one. Please try to be that person for your nieces and nephews.

I really commend you for seeing and caring.

amother

Mauve

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 9:50 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I actually am curious. I don't care for her sake - be miserable if you want - or her marriage- it takes two to tango. But I want to know what would make you take it out on your kids more than a bad day makes you lose your cool. I'm spending more time with her now in the summer and I'm seeing her kids start turning against her. Even as they are desperately trying to reach out, and keep getting shut down.

We grew up in a home with yelling too so I know the feeling of stepping around a time bomb and the tightrope walk around the tension. So some of this is learned behavior (on the other hand, I grew up in the same home and I'm totally different). And it was never this bad. And we both agree our parent totally sucked at this aspect.

shouting isn't her problem. It's radiating impatience, annoyance, making the kid feel like you're doing them the biggest favor by slapping together a grilled cheese sandwich for supper at 7pm instead of happily providing for their basic needs. Like someone dumped these kids on her and she has no time, patience or energy to even look their way. That's her attitude. Honestly it's borderline emotional abuse. And there's no need for it, bc she's not busy working, cleaning or keeping house, so she should be able to spare an iota of attention for some naturally cute, good natured and gentle kids.

that's why I mentioned that there are no obvious stressors in her life. She's not an agunah or a divorcee or living with 3 kids in a one bedroom or married to a total a-hole, like other women I know who still manage to parent effectively. Like what's your problem exactly. Your life is pretty well set up, what are you so miserable about.

Best part is she's totally blind to it, My sister can logically quote How to Talk , different techniques etc but the reality is just so different. I feel like if she only heard a playback of what she sounds like, she would be mortified.

Idk, does it sound like depression? For years already?? I've also gone thru some stuff. I'm currently pretty miserable professionally and financially. I still am able to make my kids feel like a million bucks and not two cents. Why should the kids have to suffer?

So if you gave more details I'll try to give you what her perspective might be based on my experience.

First of all, don't compare yourself to her. Ever. Consider yourself lucky that you came out unscathed from your life's experiences. Period. End of story.

Secondly, it seems like she may be carrying around some deep heavy stuff that she herself isn't aware of. Definitely she is in a lot of pain. A person in pain cannot be expected to function on the same level. Is it painful to watch it, extremely . Is there anything you can do, very very little. Be there for her kids. Try and make them feel good whenever you can.

Or, if you just can't, distance yourself from the situation. It's unhealthy for you to get emotionally involved in something you have little to no control over.

Thirdly, the "why" question is as old as time. It's extremely painful when it's happening to someone you love, but everyone in this world suffers to some degree. Whether you see it or not.

On to what mighr be going on. She might have debilitating anxiety, depression and/or ptsd. Depression is not just about laying under the covers crying all day. I would highly suggest you educate yourself on mental illness stuff. Even if just to make you understand what she is going through inside on a daily basis.

Hugs to you. It can be draining to watch a situation like this. You may even benefit from a few therapy sessions yourself to learn how to deal with it internally and practically .(saying this from personal experience. aside from my own personal stuff, I am watching another extremely painful situation unfold. My hands are tied in that one. there have been therapy sessions where I dedicated the entire time to learning how to deal with that and It was extremely helpful.)

Whatever you decide to do or not do, good luck. This isn't easy to deal with and it's not something that will just go away by doing one thing either. It may be lifelong (as long as her kids are under her roof and far beyond past that as well). I hope she is on good longterm bc.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 9:55 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

You don't sound very caring or compassionate. How on earth do you know who's fault her marriage issues are?! Are you her??? Do you know what her husband is like when he is alone with her? You sound so judgmental and quite immature yourself, to be honest. Work on your own issues! Definitely do not speak to her husband about her, that is a serious lack of boundaries. Btw, the correct grammer is not " my sister needs an intervention," but my sister needs intervention.

I agree. You sound very judgemental that you are better than her. You are adamant that she is emotionally abusing her kids. Even if you talk with your sister, it definitely seems your sister senses you are unapproachable and therefore, DOES NOT OPEN UP TO YOU ABOUT HER CHALLENGES.

Are you hashem? No! So, there is no way for you to say "she has no major problems" ... just because she is very wealthy, just because she is not divorced or an aguna...does not mean she has no challenges. Being wealthy does not mean we have no problems.

If you do not live with her 24/7 then just "hanging with her" in the summer a lot, does not mean you know she is not suffering. Do you know her dh is good to her in the bedroom or with anything she needs?? You said she is at fault but not her dh. But, it seems you think bec her dh provides for her($), then he is not at fault. Sorry, you are not her and only hashem knows what she goes through. It is like a friend I have that I like a lot but she thinks I have no challenges.

Let's go through the positives, does she do anything correct? Anything good for her kids(according to you)? Or, is she a yelling, raging...mom(in your opinion)?? Well, if she is raging and yelling all the time(according to you), then maybe hire help for her, maybe she needs a vacation for her and friends, a women retreat....but unless you have no faith in her as a human and you think she is not capable of being a good mom(and if you think this, then she will never be good enough)...she must be stressed and suffering from a challenge...(unless she has a mental disorder) but I know a lot of people who judge others' parenting as abusive, when they are just as bad at parenting!

Stop judging her! You are not god! Just because she is wealthy does not mean she has no challenges.

amother

Apricot

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:02 pm

I don't understand why op is being attacked. Even though I know I could be her sister, my behavior can be called erratic, I suffer from diff issues.. but her post still makes sense to me, does not reek of anything. Stop attacking her.

nechamashifra

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:02 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Actually op does sound very caring and compassionate. The kids here are the ones suffering (yes, the mother and prob the dh are both suffering too, but they are the adults here). To just say "don't be judgemental" when you know there are children living in daily tension, is quite ridiculous. I completely understand your frustration op...and no you do not sound immature at all.

nechamashifra

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:06 pm

oliveoil wrote:

Yes!

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:09 pm

[quote="oliveoil"

b) studies show that one person - a teacher, aunt, other caring adult - can make all the difference to kids in this situation. Ie, take 2 kids who are not getting what they need at home, but one has a caring adult in another part of their life - that single factor can put that child on an entirely different trajectory to the kid who has no one. Please try to be that person for your nieces and nephews.

I really commend you for seeing and caring.[/quote]

Yes - that's what I said. Be involved with the children, build their self-esteem. I read a Readers Digest Article about a boy whose mother died and his father was distant. But he had a teacher who encouraged him and complimented him. This neglected boy became a doctor -and he credits this teacher for his success and emotional health!

amother

Smokey

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:11 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Strongly disagree that it's a lack of boundaries to tell the husband that she's worried about her sister and would like to help. Lack of boundaries would be inquiring about personal details that op is not privy to. Not sharing her concern about her own sister.

amother

Indigo

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:24 pm

If it were me (well, maybe it was me to a certain extent, I'm realizing that now, though not as bad, and I didn't do much about it) this is what I would do.

If you have a good relationship with BIL, I would say this to him:
"I'm concerned about Sarah. She was never like this when we were younger. She might be depressed. She might ch"v have a brain tumor.

I'm also worried about your children. If Sarah doesn't get help, someone is going to need to pay for lots of therapy to heal your kids. They need nurturing. They need love. Do you think they get enough positive from you to balance the negative from Sarah?" etc.

Maybe he can at least convince her to go for an evaluation for physical & mental health and go from there.

Because, yes, those kids are seriously at risk, and already beginning to show signs of it. They need someone to advocate for them.

sarahmalka

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:33 pm

Hi OP this sounds rough. I don't have sisters but I do have a brother I was worried about and I spoke to him. I kept it simple and kept the concern directed about him, not his kids or marriage or career. It worked out well, he was not put off by my concern and in fact reached out to me again a few months after for more support.
If you do decide to talk to her, I suggest saying simply something like "I wonder how you're doing. I'm a little worried about you. Want to talk about it?"

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:40 pm

nechamashifra wrote:

Op did not just say she was concerned about the kids. She blamed her sister for everything. She said her sister is at fault not her sisters dh and op said because her sister is wealthy, her sister has no challenges.

(op also said she, the op, struggles financially, so it sounds like she cant really see this situation properly rather she is jealous and resentful so she is finding fault. Did you ever hear of 2 women who each say the other is emotionally abusing their kids?? I did! And, they both judged each other as the bad, raging mom while saying they themselves were calm. Maybe if op didnt say that her sister was not suffering, she would sound genuinly concerned for the kids. But, she seems jealous and....)

(I mean if you want to say its really bad, then obviously they need to be removed. I know someone who called cps on another family and it caused tzaros for her. It was not abuse but someones (who doesnt live with them) opinion.....pls remember op is not god and neither is cps which is why they make many mistakes and why many foster kids are abused even under the "watch" of cps.

unexpected

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:40 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Btw the correct spelling is grammar not grammer

amother

Taupe

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:45 pm

True, also it is not incorrect usage to use an article in front of a noun. So "the intervention" or "an intervention" actually is correct grammar. It would be incorrect only to say " a intervention" because of the vowel sounds running together.

amother

Firebrick

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:49 pm

OP I can only offer hugs and support and tell you to do your best for the children. I have a sister like this - she does have some very difficult challenges in life that we (the siblings) know about and are very supportive in every way. However she is always angry and jealous, always negative with her children, and it’s a toxic environment. We’ve spoken to my wonderful brother-in-law at length and he has sent her to therapy. It’s ups and downs with her, but all you can do is be there for the children.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:03 pm

I agree with ra_mom. Start with empathy. "Wow, things are really hectic for you right now. How are you coping? Is there anything I can do to help? You seem pretty stressed lately."

She may have ADD, and if things are flying she'll be constantly stressed and on edge. If she's a perfectionist, that will only make things worse. That kind of stress can make a person really snappy when things aren't going right and that person feels overwhelmed. Especially if that person thinks it's their responsibility to make everything perfect, but everyone else keeps messing things up.

All you can do is try to take her side, and be kind. If she tries to drag you into drama, don't take the bait. Just keep being nice. Eventually she'll have to realize that dragging you down to her level of stress is not going to make her happy, and she'll have to change tactics around you. That could be the first step to realizing that she needs to change tactics in general.

If she grew up around yelling, it makes sense that she's not aware that she's repeating that pattern. By being empathetic with her, you can show her that there is a different way of relating to people than what she has seen in the past.

thegiver

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:08 pm

Ask her advice about a friend who has the same issue—u want to give ur friendadvice. Ask ur sister what u should tell ur friend with this problem. Just add a dramatic twist like a kid with some chutzpa issue or... self esteem issue... or something even more dramatic so she doesnt know u r referring to her.

Key is to keep it indirect and not personal. Make her think about things by her own conclusion. Kudos for not sitting by idly and allowing her to destroy her own life and family.

Role model a positive happy home. And warmth.

Never criticize unless u r sure she will listen. Never in a heated moment. Maybe once when u r aloneenjoying coffee or bonding time u can praise praise praise her (find something!) and then fit in some indirect criticism with some joking and finish with something positive.

asmileaday

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:37 pm

Op I just wanted to counter the negative voices here.
I think you are right to be concerned. If anyone can intervene it's you. (And yes "an intervention" is a correct phrase. Anyone watched how I met your mother? There's a whole episode on staging an intervention for different characters, but that's off topic.)
I don't have concrete advice to offer I just want to encourage you that you are not a monster for being concerned for your nieces and nephews.
I hope you get clarity and know what the right thing to do is.

creditcards

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:52 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yes. This definitely sounds like depression. Depression sucks out every ounce of strength you have so making a grilled cheese sandwich at 7:00 for the kids can feel very stressful.

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