Thoughts on this? | Imamother

nchr

Fri, Aug 30 2019, 5:12 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

We are actually in scientists' hands when we choose to vaccinate. Manipulating our immune systems as if Hashem didn't take care of that already. Possibly solving some issues and creating others.

Besides, both halachically and hashkafically cures and vaccines are not the same thing and don't pretend they are.

Right because you just spewed Christian Doctrine. There are extensive Teshuvos from Rabonim encouraging Jews to not only receive Smallpox vaccinations, but to participate in trials. Jewish mesorah does not feel that way, but Christian scientists do...

amother

Coral

Fri, Aug 30 2019, 5:17 pm

nchr wrote:

I am not a Christian and never read Christian Doctrine. I take this hashkafa from Torah.

There are piskei halacha from rabanim of today's days, based on the information we have NOW, that vaccines today are not halachically obligated and even more so, in some cases, actually assur.

nchr

Fri, Aug 30 2019, 5:23 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

I'm not discussing vaccines being mandatory or not. I believe in choice. Even if halacha mandated it, I probably would still personally believe in choice. I'm stating that the concept of introducing a vaccine into a body being a hashkafic issue is not Jewish. Period. And we have mesorah to prove that.

amother

Coral

Fri, Aug 30 2019, 6:31 pm

nchr wrote:

As long as various medical practices have been around, there have been different hashkafic approaches, including vaccines. With the additional information we have today about the process for vaccine approval, the lack of liability, etc. etc. there are additional halachic responses. Yes, the political climate today is such that the "mesorah" is overwhelmingly towards vaccines, yet there are respectable names in the opposition camp as well with the mesorah to prove it.

imasoftov

Sat, Aug 31 2019, 3:04 pm

nchr wrote:

There are extensive Teshuvos from Rabonim encouraging Jews to not only receive Smallpox vaccinations, but to participate in trials.

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

There are piskei halacha from rabanim of today's days, based on the information we have NOW, that vaccines today are not halachically obligated and even more so, in some cases, actually assur.

I encourage you both to provide references.

nchr

Sat, Aug 31 2019, 10:36 pm

imasoftov wrote:

I encourage you both to provide references.

Here is one but there are many more... even though the subject matter is different, it discusses Rabbinic encouragement of participating in Smallpox trials.

Some Jewish Responses to Smallpox Prevention in the Late Eighteenth and Early Nineteenth Centuries: A New Perspective on the Modernization of European Jewry

nchr

Sat, Aug 31 2019, 10:38 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Again, that is not what you wrote. There is no mesorah that claims you cannot use vaccines because it is destroying a perfect body created by Hashem. That concept is Christian. If you know of legitimate frum Jews who believe that, please source it. I know there are legitimate Rabbonim who do not believe you are obligated to vaccinate, but that is different than what you claimed earlier.

#BestBubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 11:35 am

nchr wrote:

The government cannot force you to vaccinate, and they should not be able to. You may be fined money, you may be sued if you negligently sicken another person (this is not specific to non vaxxers) and you may be denied services like medical insurance or public schooling, but you cannot be forced. I happen to not care of unvaxxed kids are in school, but it's not unconstitutional to take a different stance.

Don't be naive. Denying school, daycare, medical care, fines are COERCION.

And coercion works. Faced with being denied school, many anti-vaxxers are forced
to vax their children. It is proven that some of those children forced to vax will be injured.

Because many anti-vaxxers already have one vaccine injured child, these children coerced to vaccinate are at higher risk of vaccine injury than families without a vaccine-injured child.
But the government does not allow doctors to give siblings of vaccine-injured children a
medical exemption - even though the government admits siblings of autistic and vaccine injured children are at higher risk of vaccine injuries!

southernbubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 12:00 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

So what do you say to the home day care operators who will lose their clientele if they take non vaccinated kids? Is everyone obligated to risk catching a preventable infection that they don't want in order to allow choice? There was an outbreak in a Crown Heights infant care center and this is what the parents are wanting to avoid. Are you saying that the mainstream families are obligated to put up with measles in order to accommodate a different POV? While some anti-vaxers are truly people who did have bad experiences with vaccines, others are probably people who wouldn't lose a thing by vaccinating but see posts like yours and become anti-vax.

#BestBubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:00 pm

southernbubby wrote:

What would you say to a compromise that only Measles Vaccine required during an outbreak?

Why are parents forced to give 79 doses for vaccines including those that are not contagious like tetanus?

Government is taking advantage of Fear to force ALL vaccines when there is only a concern about Measles. Because Government takes advantage of every crisis to take away our rights.

JoyInTheMorning

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:08 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

There's only a concern about measles? Watch this video about Isabelle Weall. She lost both lower arms and lower legs to meningitis when she was seven years old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXsj9O4Jwmw

#BestBubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:14 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Hey, you want to watch videos of children who were injured by vaccines? I got tons.

southernbubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:19 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

I have said here numerous times that a compromise would be fair but was the rally at the Atrium held in order to encourage people to give the MMR in response to the outbreak? Many anti-vaxers would not compromise.

dancingqueen

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:24 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

There is NO link between vaccines and autism. Full stop.

And if they are so determined to keep government out of their lives, homeschooling seems like a good choice actually.

#BestBubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:29 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Most anti-vaxxers already have one vaccine injured child and don't want to risk their
healthy children whom even government admits is at higher risk of vaccine injury - yet government refuses to give siblings of vaccine injured kids a medical exemption.

The risk of measles from an unvaccinated child is very tiny. This was government sponsored hysteria. In the 1960s and 1970s nobody was afraid of measles.

#BestBubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 3:05 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

There is NO link between vaccines and autism. Full stop.

And if they are so determined to keep government out of their lives, homeschooling seems like a good choice actually.

Plenty of scientists and medical doctors disagree. There are hundreds of studies showing otherwise.

The Tobacco Industry used to hire scientists to deny that smoking cause cancer.
But a Smoking vs Non-Smoking Study proved that Smoking does cause cancer.

DancingQueen, why does government refuse to do a Vax vs UnVax Study?

(because it will prove vaccines cause autism - and many other chronic diseases)