To the anti vaxers, did you vaccinate?

JoyInTheMorning

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 1:50 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Public Schools HAD to accept kids with a Religious Exemption.

But Private Schools are allowed to pick which kids they accept and are allowed
to exclude Religious Exemption.

For around 50 years, unvaxxed children attended school and yeshivas NOBODY was concerned.

It was Government Propaganda who whipped up UnVaxxed-Kid-Phobia.

If people are unafraid to go in cars that KILL 40,000 a year and PERMANENTLY INJURE 2 million a year, it is RIDICULOUS to be afraid of unvaxxed kids where the alleged danger is so minute.

This is a point we absolutely agree on. Riding in a car is much more dangerous than not getting vaccinated today. This could change if polio, diphtheria, and other diseases make a comeback, which could happen if too many parents stop vaccinating, but it is certainly true that automobile accidents are a far higher risk at this point than having serious damage from a VPD.

The thing is that experts in both areas are working to make the world a safer place. Cars today are much safer than they were twenty years ago, and cars from twenty years ago were much safer than they were forty years ago. Besides the safety features, we have legislation mandating car seats, booster seats, and seat belts to protect passengers and drivers in case of accidents. Thank God. I would point out that not every intervention always saves lives or prevents injury. Sometimes a seat belt prevents someone getting out of a car when they need to escape. Sometimes an airbag deploys too forcefully, breaking bones, and occasionally even killing a small person. But overall, these are tremendous safety innovations, and I'd be absolutely opposed to anyone trying to get around these safety devices. I don't think parents should have the "choice" whether to put their kids in car seats. I don't think a car dealer should have the "choice" to disable an airbag. It's fine for the government to have strict regulations about these things.

(And in the same way, vaccine manufacturers are working to make vaccines safer. It's true that they have many vaccines in the pipeline. They test them and withdraw them when they aren't shown to be safe or effective enough. As an example, Sanofi has been trying for years to develop a safe vaccine for Dengue fever. Tests several years ago showed that the vaccines were not sufficiently effective, and could cause higher mortality down the road.(Dengue fever is unusual in that it can be caught multiple times, and the second time is often more dangerous than the first time. Thus, a traditional vaccine could backfire.) Once Sanofi realized that, they stopped testing and they went back to the drawing board. They did this, despite great financial loss, because their goal is to minimize disease and mortality.)

Back to cars: Even with all the safety features, car accidents are all too common, and too many people each year are killed or injured. It's a much bigger problem, I agree. So, #BestBubby, why aren't you out there mandating for better safety for automobiles? Why are you focusing on vaccines?

Last edited by JoyInTheMorning on Mon, Sep 02 2019, 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 1:51 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Yes and Im pretty it applied to school receiving govt funding which is almost every Brooklyn Jewish school.

amother

Mustard

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 1:54 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Monday morning quarterbacking won't help any pregnant woman now. The fact that many soldiers contracted measles during the civil war indicates that it was often contracted after the ideal age and possibly before as we.

My grandmother was able to catch German measles as an adult (I know it's a different disease, but it's another one that was supposed to hit in childhood). When we caught chickenpox as kids (before the vaccine) our babysitter couldn't come because she had never had it and was pregnant at the time.

Should we be infecting all children with live measles instead of dead measles so everyone can catch it as a kid?

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 1:55 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I never said that only anti-vaxers send sick kids out in public it just has a bigger impact during an outbreak regardless of who does it. The more people who are not immune, the greater the impact.
There was a lot about the way vaccines work that was previously not understood before the outbreak including the level of danger to pregnant women with low titers.
You also have to take into consideration that the online face of anti-vax was not those who had bad experiences but those who were had bought into propaganda and junk science.

Not sure where you are heading here. You said you were in 'our corner' before this outbreak and now not. Never explained your reasoning yet. You always say think of this sort, 'junk science'. State which specific thing is junk and prove what I know wrong. How else do I know you are sincere? We run into this time and time again and you never back your 'sources' or give legitimate reasoning.

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 1:59 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Thanks, obviously many of us trust the manufacturers because most people in American society are vaccinated and an entire generation was free of measles and most people are relatively healthy. There are obviously people on both sides of believing in the integrity of the product and research.

This is what pharma wants people to believer - blind belief! Not only that but watch, in a few years theyll start saying that now they know how to diagnose vaccine injury better and ME shouldnt have been there in the first place yada yada.. just like Autism is 'diagnosed better' these days. So because I learned that in college as a statement with NOTHING to back it up, Im supposed to believe that myth?

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 2:04 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

It's quite clear from the context that the Rebbe was confident that US-manufactured vaccines were safe. I'd be interested to know when this was written, but it should be noted that at various times when the Rebbe was heading the Lubavitch community, US-manufactured vaccines were more dangerous than they are now. (DTP, IPV, and smallpox vaccines all had much greater adverse effects than any of the vaccines around now, even in combination.) Still the Rebbe expressed confidence.

Do you believe vaccines have no risk? The rebbe doesnt say to check manufacturer reliability for absolutely no reason. There used to be liability. Even with liability the manufacturers have their own interests. Now that for years there is no liability, why would it be in their interests to take every precaution and improve where needed?
Just for example, MMR is a combo vaccine. Some ppl are immune to one and not the other and only want a separated form, but they stopped making it and then people are shamed for not wanting another MMR just for one of the three that need to be cover. What more? More and more are pushing MMRV because maybe if they wont offer Varicella alone, ppl will ger the MMRV and there you go, you gave another person a MMR. There is ALOT of money involved in vaccines, unimaginable.

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 2:08 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Current vaccines are tested for safety? I wish I had the video to show you how vaccines are voted on. Not safe in the least. No, not at all. I really hope someone has it and can post.

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 2:11 pm

My cancer patient was locked up in the house almost entire year because of outbreak. School didnt want to fight with parents of the unvaxxed kids attending his class. My neighbors in building who don't vax didn't hold their kids inside, just send them to play in front of my doorstep. Is that fair? Why, because they chose not to vaccinate why shouldn't they be the ones to keep their kids, why did mine have to stay home, when it was dangerous for him. Btw he got the go ahead to go back to cheder, after couple of months home, the day he went back to school was when outbreak started spreading, so dr didn't let him go. He lingered home for another 6 mos till we had no choice but send him back, although outbreak was still strong & their were still kids in his class unvaxxed that cheder had no koach to fight with to send home. Under such conditions he went back with double dose ivig treatment weekly & bracha from our rebbe.
Finally after I was locked up together with him & he went back to school, I found out that I am pregnant. My Ob took my titers & said I lost immunity, should I lock myself up for next year?
Even if kids were sent home, they still roamed the shuls, groceries, pizza stores, parks so my child was literally under house arrest.
Even going to bubby we couldnt do, because other cousins that dont vax insisted on going then, when we wanted to go. My child was crying that, the one place that he was able to go, was taken away from him as well.
If you have your beliefs, no problem, but stay home & don't endanger the ones most vulnerable.

fyi he had all his vaccines twice already but since chemo kills immunity they want to give it to him for 3rd time now.

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 2:12 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

The Jewish Religious Exemption was legitimate.
There is a mitzvah to "Very much, Guard your Life/Health"

If you are certain that vaccines are dangerous, you cannot vax.

If you are certain that vaccines protect health, you must vax.

The Mitzvah depends on what one believes.

So what you are saying is a small tiny minority of frum Jews, and a even smaller fraction of the tiny fraction of whom have a medical background, possess information that the rest of the frum community doesn't have.

The Mitzvah does not depend on what you believe. What is the source for that? Where is the sefer that talks about that Mitzvah and says that.

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 2:53 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

im sorry you had a rough year with this. I do want to point out a few things. The whold time your son was home with you who lost immunity, he was just as much at risk as around others who are unvaccinated. And lets say only vaccinated were in school, many, just like you dont become immune from the vaccine or lose immunity. Its a catch either way. A lot of people like to say that 'pregnancy makes you lose immunity' but if that were the case, why would an OB be able to accept titers from a RE who saw the patient BEFORE becoming pregnant and therefore they dont need to redo the bloodwork when switching to an OB. Situation is unfortunate to be home all year but realize he was just as much at risk if you were out and about at some points throughout the day.

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 2:56 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

This is the reason who ever can get the shots, should get so that the ones that can't, that are most vulnerable, with medical issues or legit medical exemptions should be protected.

If all antivaxxers would quarantine their sick children & anti vaxxers would keep unvaxxed kids home we would be able to contain & end the outbreak right away.

non vaxxers who have sick kids during outbreak keep their kids home. There is no reason to quarantine a healthy kid. The disease spread to many who intenntionally exposed themselves. Those who really spread it the most are the vaccinated who didnt have immunity, thinking they are safe.

polka dots

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 3:07 pm

I wish we can leave the arguing to all the other vaccine threads and keep this about “what are parents doing for the school year”. I’m honestly curious.

My friend ended up giving the first round of shots and her kids are staying in their school. She felt that even though shots aren’t so good for her kids bodies, it was better than being home. Her oldest son gave her a hard time with that because she had told him in the past how harmful shots are.

Another antivax friend is not giving shots now. I don’t know what she’ll be doing because I don’t talk to her about this anymore!

southernbubby

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 3:24 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

The reason that I don't provide sources, as I have explained several times, is that I don't have a computer, or WiFi, only this phone which I have never been able to cut and paste the link on because I can't figure out how to do it.

How many people read Peach and view it as scientific when they use people with questionable credentials as sources? I have seen anti-vaxers put things on here that were disproven in nanoseconds.

Basically a number of the anti-vaxers on this site seemed to have major entitlement attitudes which indicated that several of them felt that if they transmitted measles, that Hashem and big pharma were at fault but don't play that "blame game" with them. I got turned off by some blatant ignorance, and some arrogance, displayed in thread after thread and discredited by knowledgeable posters.

I saw an almost cult-like allegiance to the anti-vax movement and this was a major turn off. The few anti-vaxers that I know throw the little money they have at homeopaths and other natural healers who, in my opinion, are laughing all the way to the bank and are as corrupt as big pharma. Many have questionable credentials.

Now I also see on here that some anti-vaxers were really harmed by vaccines or other big pharma products which if we are going to expect anti-vaxers to understand the legitimate fears of people who could be harmed by measles we have to understand those anti-vaxers with legitimate fears (as opposed to those who were fine with vaccinating until Peach, Aishes Chayal or Del Bigtree which they call "research").