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Forum
-> Children's Health
-> Vaccinations
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amother
Denim
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 Fri, Sep 20 2019, 12:46 pm
| amother [ Oak ] wrote: | excuse me. there is only one person like me. me. And there is only one person like you. you.
The FDA's position is that low vaccination rates increase risk of outbreaks. If there are people to be informed - start there. |
No need to get in a huff. I said people like you and people like me. To be even clearer: Vaccinate all you want, but vaccinated people who aren't informed about facts and, as you said, "don't care about the low efficacy rate of mumps" should not blame anyone but Merck for lying.
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southernbubby
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 12:48 pm
| amother [ Denim ] wrote: | In general, my motto in life is that knowledge is power.
But more specifically, on this forum, it is important for people who discuss this topic to have all the information. Southernbubby has been very vociferous on many vaccination threads and yet is missing some basic knowledge. I'm not talking about interpretation of facts, which we differ on. I'm talking about simple history and current events.
If you, Oak, or anybody else does not care about the low efficacy rate of mumps, chooses to vaccinate her kids, without blaming mumps outbreaks on the unvaccinated, go ahead, bracha v'hatzlacha! You're doing the right thing.
But once you start discussing, blaming, arguing, or even worse, mocking and shaming others who choose to do differently, you've got to have all the basic facts first. |
I admit that I am learning more as I read up on these discussions but I do take issue with someone who claims that some unidentified researchers have proven that vaccines cause infertility.
I have not seen too many established facts presented by the anti-vaxers either so I think that we have evened up the score. Knowledgeable posters have blown holes in many of their "facts."
I don't know how much of the aversion to anti-vaxers has as much to do with fear of disease as it has to do with the attitude of putting their own children first at the possible expense of the public.
We are as likely to be interested in the facts that come from "alternative" sources as we are likely to read the new Testament.
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amother
Orchid
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 12:50 pm
| amother [ Denim ] wrote: | | I'm not sure how old you are, but most women in your age-bracket did not receive as many vaccines as children are getting today. Using yourself as proof does not prove anything. |
I'm in my 30s. Many of them came out as I got older like the HepA/Hep B and the 2nd dose of the MMR. Other than chicken pox which I actually got, not sure which ones I didn't get but they did. But still I look at my nieces and nephews in their 20s and they are having children right away B"H. My kids are otherwise healthy kids, they are still prepubescent but so far there's nothing to indicate that they aren't growing normally.
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amother
Oak
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 1:01 pm
| amother [ Denim ] wrote: | | No need to get in a huff. I said people like you and people like me. To be even clearer: Vaccinate all you want, but vaccinated people who aren't informed about facts and, as you said, "don't care about the low efficacy rate of mumps" should not blame anyone but Merck for lying. |
I really take issue the "people like me" comment. If you are talking about people who yell about people regarding vaccination - those people have nothing to do with me. Leave me out of it entirely. You are the one who thinks everyone should be more informed about the specifics of the mumps vaccine.
But since you raised it - I'll wait for an epidemiologist or like professional to make claim that the mumps vaccine is the reason for mumps outbreaks - that's who I would look to if I had an interest in figuring this out.
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amother
Denim
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 1:06 pm
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amother
Denim
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 1:11 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | I admit that I am learning more as I read up on these discussions but I do take issue with someone who claims that some unidentified researchers have proven that vaccines cause infertility.
I have not seen too many established facts presented by the anti-vaxers either so I think that we have evened up the score. Knowledgeable posters have blown holes in many of their "facts."
I don't know how much of the aversion to anti-vaxers has as much to do with fear of disease as it has to do with the attitude of putting their own children first at the possible expense of the public.
We are as likely to be interested in the facts that come from "alternative" sources as we are likely to read the new Testament. |
I'm not one to claim vaccines cause infertility other than Gardasil. However, the reason is because it's never been studied. Every single vaccine insert states that this product "has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or potential to impair fertility". The lack of testing is something people have an issue with, and thus they see it as an opening to blame vaccines for infertility.
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southernbubby
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 2:28 pm
| amother [ Denim ] wrote: | | I'm not one to claim vaccines cause infertility other than Gardasil. However, the reason is because it's never been studied. Every single vaccine insert states that this product "has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or potential to impair fertility". The lack of testing is something people have an issue with, and thus they see it as an opening to blame vaccines for infertility. |
Very different from saying that something is proven to cause infertility or claiming that it's a major cause of infertility.
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southernbubby
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 2:30 pm
I was only able to access the first two and neither told when the formula changed
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amother
Oak
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 3:06 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | | I was only able to access the first two and neither told when the formula changed |
https://vaxopedia.org/2019/04/.....ines/
Keep in mind the 'agenda' of the vaxopedia people is to provide counter evidence to typical 'anti-vaxxer' claims.
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southernbubby
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 3:36 pm
| amother [ Oak ] wrote: | https://vaxopedia.org/2019/04/07/whats-the-difference-between-the-mmr-and-mmr-ii-vaccines/
Keep in mind the 'agenda' of the vaxopedia people is to provide counter evidence to typical 'anti-vaxxer' claims. |
This states that the difference is in the rubella component so why would the MMRII be less effective against mumps?
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amother
Oak
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 4:01 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | | This states that the difference is in the rubella component so why would the MMRII be less effective against mumps? |
I don't know.
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amother
Denim
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 4:19 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | | This states that the difference is in the rubella component so why would the MMRII be less effective against mumps? |
It's a new formula, different amount of antigens.
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ally
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 4:22 pm
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Never. Science is a process.
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southernbubby
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Fri, Sep 20 2019, 6:02 pm
Also denim, because you are anonymous, isn't it a bit cheeky to decide that I am missing some basic information when nobody knows what you have posted in other threads? I could have also posted anonymously but at least I am an honest person and am willing to admit that there are things that I am still learning. If I dig at the anti-vaxers, you at least know who I am.
But do you know what I even bother? Its because when I was in college, many of my friends were caught up in the Yoshke movement and the anti-vax discourse sounds like that. After I became frum, a number of my friends were following a macrobiotic and this lead to blindly following any alternative guru out there.
Then someone points out that the pharmaceutical industry, namely Merck, is corrupt and dishonest, as we know, but if the police are dishonest, we may still have to use their services and the same is true for big pharma.
So we were supposed to read this and decide that we would rather society return to a 10% hospitalization rate for the measles. Sorry, didn't happen, not are we going to Albany to advocate for REs.
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southernbubby
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Sat, Sep 21 2019, 8:04 pm
It makes sense to give booster shots.
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amother
Oak
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Sat, Sep 21 2019, 8:47 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | | It makes sense to give booster shots. |
Planned Obsolescence?
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southernbubby
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Sat, Sep 21 2019, 9:26 pm
| amother [ Oak ] wrote: | | Planned Obsolescence? |
I think that there are natural limitations to immunity acquired by vaccines and we have to be realistic about it. As the article states, there is a lot of variability in how long the immunity lasts.
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