Question to those who are Baalei Tshuva

amother

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 7:09 pm

I was reading the other thread about “the other side of mechitsa” and the truth is that this subject is something that makes Yidishkeit very hard for me .
Thank G-d when I was little I didn’t feel this way ,my father and my brothers are very respectful of woman and my mother always made sure that the boy would help at home the same as the girls. At school some of the things that I learnt would bother me (ex: there is the concept of Isha sota ,who gets humiliated for cheating on her husband but there is no such a thing for when a man cheats her wife )
But now that I’m married with kids and I live in a different community I feel so much the difference in how Judaism treats woman less than men ,and it bothers me so much (ex : in my ex-shul after fasting there is food for the men and nothing to women ,like Helloooo we are hungry tooo!!)
So I wanted to know from those who have lived the secular world : do you think that’s a religious problem or a worldly problem?
On the secular world have you ever felt that you were treated “less “ just for being a woman?
Please explain
I’m very curious / interested on knowing this
Thanks

amother

Puce

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 7:31 pm

I am not BT and cannot answer from that perspective, but I am MO and I do not feel the disparity described. While I have a different role than my husband, and we occupy different spheres in the home, I do not feel less than. I do not feel that my olam habah is based on his learning Torah or on that of my sons'. There is a beautiful ezrat nashim in my Shul and I daven there. I am responsible for speaking to Hashem myself. There are groups for the children, mommy and me for mothers to socialize in Shul, and many DHs go to haskama so that their wife's can go to regular minyan.
Kiddushes, succah parties, smachot are family affairs and signed by both parents.
Honestly, I am thrilled not to have the obligation of tiffillin. I can reach the same madregah without all the challenges/opportunities to fail. Why would I want that. If I accomplish my tafkid in life, I reach that level- life is hard enough. If Hashem feels that men need these constant reminders and tasks to stay on target, but as women we don't, who am I to question. I am happy to not have extra responsibilities complicating my life. Even though shevet and inheritance may have followed a paternal lineage, religion follows the mother. Is not raising children, future generations of klal yisrael the most important task? The children's ahavas Hashem comes from you, the home. What could be more important than that.
I am very happy to make the bracha Sasani kirtzono.

southernbubby

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 7:40 pm

As a BT, one of the reasons that I left Conservative Judaism, although I had grown up active, was that they pushed their extreme view of feminism so strongly, that it was unacceptable to them to be a woman.

I have never experienced mistreatment of women as a frum Jew. There was always food for both genders wherever I went to shul.

urban gypsy

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 7:44 pm

I think it’s absolutely a world problem. There is lowkey (and highkey) misogyny in many cultures and corners of the secular world.

What really hurts is expecting the frum world to be better (or at least not worse!) than the outside world. When it falls short so drastically it is very painful.

mommy3b2c

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 7:48 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

I relate to this post very much. Judaism does not see women as inferior. Unfortunately, there are some Jewish sects that do not treat women as they should be treated. Bh I am not part of that culture.

amother

Mustard

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 8:40 pm

I am a giyoret, and I think that although the secular world pays lip service to equality, my 30+ years of experience was that women are often treated very badly on a fundamental level. The system of secular "freedom" puts women at a disadvantage while claiming to give them equality. Worse, women are not taught to value THEMSELVES. Part of what drew me to Judaism was the respect of and protections for women.

I find that the acceptance of different roles is much more honest and works much better than the pretend equality of the secular world. My secular friends have relationship problems because of impossible expectations - being taught that men and women are the same - that I no longer have. I know that my husband and I are equal, but DIFFERENT.

Of course, it depends on a lot of things, and misogyny is everywhere, it's true. But, in my opinion, Judaism has is right, fundementaly.

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:48 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

amother

Vermilion

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:59 pm

21young wrote:

As a FFB with an extremely respectful husband I’m not qualified to answer, but one thing I know is that the men always (good naturedly) complain why at simchos the women get all the beautiful setup and delicious food while the men get a step down. So there is that Smile

And I'm the one who always complains to DH at simchos that women get all the pretty, gross-tasting bakery goods, while the men get the kugel and somewhat substantial food!

amother

Papaya

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:19 pm

I’m a BT and unfortunately I’ve experienced things since I became frum that are worse than what I experienced in the secular world. That being said, I became frum at 19 and distanced myself from the hookup culture and any instances where I would have felt mistreated or objectified. So my perspective is probably more limited.

There are problems everywhere, and I definitely think the frum world respects women more on a whole. However there are also problems in the frum world that upset me, but I remind myself that it’s not Torah, it’s people.

amother

Puce

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:22 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

And I'm the one who always complains to DH at simchos that women get all the pretty, gross-tasting bakery goods, while the men get the kugel and somewhat substantial food!

The few Lakewood simcha I have been to, I have the same complaint.
My MO simchas-same room, same food.

amother

Mustard

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:52 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thanks mustard , I appreciate your answer!
Why woman do you think woman are not taught to value themselves? Bc they need to be like man? That’s what you mean?

I wasn't even thinking of that, though it is somewhat true, perhaps. I was honestly thinking more zexually, and interpersonally Because women have the "freedom" to be intimate with whoever, whenever, secular culture wants everyone to think that women are liberated. In reality, women are still horrifically taken advantage of, still bear the brunt of the risk (pregnancy, violence, etc.,) and are not taught to resepct their bodies. Women don't learn boundaries, or that it's okay to say, "no." They basically torture themselves for mens pleasure. So, men don't respect them. This is a huge generalization, of course, and way oversimplified and probably poorly explained.

I can't tell you the number of times I did things for men that I straight up did not want to do while I was being "liberated"! Give me the healthy boundaries of Torah any day.

And, yeah, women don't learn to value themselves as WOMEN with unique value and capabilities, because everyone is so busy pretending that men and women are the same.

I could go on and on, but it's really bedtime:)

amother

Mustard

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:54 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

Love your last line!

Yes, I think you (B"H!!!) missed the worst of it by separating yourself from secular culture so young. Smart you! Smile

I had to learn the hard way.