Do you write besula on the invitation for dd ?

amother

Amber

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:04 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

I've also seen hakallah hchashuva.
For those that say you never saw it, it's written in pretty small letters, might be you just didn't realize it.

I have an invitation sitting in front of me, and it’s really not there.

amother

Honeydew

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:11 pm

I am in-town yeshivish, from Lakewood. I did not have habesula written on my invitation just because it's none of anybody's business. I was a besula, but nobody needed to know one way or another.

yiddishmom

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:36 pm

Oh, I never paid attention to it in that regard.

I personally didn't want any adjectives on my invitation. I only wrote "hakalah", and we had "hachasan" for my chasan. Even tho it's very accepted to add all the other adjectives in my circles.

I think it's personal preference.

amother

Seafoam

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:38 pm

It’s really just the standard way and it means a young girl. People don’t think deeply into it or at least they shouldn’t.
I would wonder why it doesn’t say that if it’s left out. Kind of makes you wonder...

amother

Coffee

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:46 pm

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

I think they write it anyway, as long as it's an unmarried girl.
The only time it doesn't say is when a divorcee remarries.
I think that confirms what some previous posters have said, about it being the marital status and not about her virginity.
It's such an old tradition I doubt anyone thinks into it. I can see though why people can think of it as crude, especially this day in age.

nicole81

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:50 pm

I don't see it written on invitations. It sounds odd to me. In terms of a ketubah, even my second marriage said betulah. I know of multiple cases where rabbabin paskened that the ketubah of a non virgin should say betulah.

Odelyah

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 10:36 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is the custom to write besula is only by chasidish and some yeshivish?

I think so-- chasidish and heimish? And some yeshivish?

I think the first time I saw it years ago, was on my Hungarian heimish very balabatish, not very yeshivish cousin's invitation. I think it's really more about flowery style than anything else, using lots of extra words, as opposed to a more streamlined, modern, or simple invitation style.

My son's Rosh Yeshiva in EY sent all the parents an invitation to their daughter's wedding, and it was a very plain invitation and it did not have those added words. It is a very yeshivish Israeli Brisk type yeshiva. My very yeshivish Israeli friend also did not put it their daughter's invitation. It didn't even say hechosson and hakallah-- just the names like in English! Maybe the yeshivish families who use this language have Hungarian backgrounds Smile

Odelyah

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 11:42 pm

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

if a kallah never been married before, is not a virgin she needs to tell the Rabbi??

it's really between her and her husband. If the person was Jewish it's definitely no one else's business, if he wasn't then the one theoretical concern I've heard would be if the husband dies ch"v, then putting besula on the kesuba could "be nichshal a kohen" who would think he is allowed to marry her (and she doesn't inform him otherwise). In the case when this came up with a friend of mine (she was raped by a non-jew when she was a teenager) the mesader kedushin paskened to put besula on the kesuba regardless.

tigerwife

Wed, Nov 13 2019, 12:43 am

I have probably received hundreds of wedding invitations and literally never noticed this. For the most part I just look at the names and date and location (on the English side), mark it on my calendar and trash. I wonder if I’ve ever even fully read the hebrew text. Pretty embarrassing.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Nov 13 2019, 12:45 am

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

People knew about this because teenage boys are not very good about keeping these kinds of secrets, quite the opposite, it apparently gives them 'street cred'. Three can keep a secret of two are dead and once one other person knows, somehow everybody knows. Yes, she is thanks gd happily married today, living in the same community. Interestingly enough, it was only us teens that knew and not many adults so that worked in her favor.

Just a note - never put much faith in the bragging of teen boys.
Just because he said he slept with her, doesn't mean he did.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Nov 13 2019, 12:47 am

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

aylor

Really? We can't write an invitation without running to a rabbi?

Anyway, I would never put betula and I am glad we have moved way past the times when a girl's virginal status was public business.

amother

Slategray

Wed, Nov 13 2019, 1:13 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Just a note - never put much faith in the bragging of teen boys.
Just because he said he slept with her, doesn't mean he did.

Agree with this, but pretty sad that the guests were ok with gossiping about it. Very tacky.

essie14

Wed, Nov 13 2019, 1:27 am

Totally not done in my circles. I put the least amount of words on my wedding invitation. Nothing extraneous. All of our friends and family already think we are great, no need to write "hamehullala" etc. Very Happy

I think it's totally bizarre.

DrMom

Wed, Nov 13 2019, 1:32 am

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

Maybe it was left out because the bride was raped, or previously married.
In either case, why does this need to be broadcast to all the simcha invitees?
So icky and gossipy.

Do wedding invitation include any "dogwhistles" re: the groom's zxual experience?