Listen to doctors talk in Connecticut Legistlation

dancingqueen

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 9:05 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

You mean infants were affected cuz their mothers MMR immunity waned. Yeah. It was pretty sad. They promised us protections and they failed. Now when I carry a baby I need to worry about measles. So so sad. My children had measles and I am happy they won't have this issue iyh
Blaming the anti vaxxers for a failed product? Remember when Hitler blamed a certain sect of humanity of all their problems and was able to indoctrinate an entire civilized German nation. Sounds familiar

When you start calling people Hitler, you lose a lot of credibility.

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 9:06 am

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

I hear you however these are people in the business regardless with scientific and medical education of a very high caliber. It should be that if one does listen pro and anti VAX should cease to exsist. There is legitimate science to both sides neither of which should exsist, Its not a coin flip or a baseball team. This is the quality of life of our people and the future, our wellbeing should be foremost. You cannot be pro or anti without listening to scientific experts with opposing sets of conclusions and evaluating critically. If you do, you'd probably see all the gray between the black & white and see why extremism is NOT GOOD. It convolutes the betterment of our futures. I pray that there are those who will remain anti extremism and with the ability to be independent critical thinkers.

I only listened to the first 3 and part of the 4th. The first guy was brilliant. He didn't take sides but admitted that vaccines utilize an older understanding of the immune system.

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 9:19 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

Do you know the definition of holistic? Is that a bad thing or maybe it would be a good idea for all doctors to treat their patients with the approach that each part of the body is interconnected with the other? And based on that, suggest a sustainable health plan rather than giving a med that heals one thing but causes a different problem?

Also, in a normal world, laws are passed after deliberating and debating the pros and cons, the benefits and the ramifications it might have. It is not rammed through both houses and signed by the governor in one day because of 1200 measles cases.

I have no problem with some alternative modalities or with the notion that medicine needs to address the whole organism rather than bits and pieces.
I ask you to look online at what his critics say and understand why his assertion that vaccinated people fueled the outbreak isn't being accepted in scientific circles.
I do agree that ramming through legislation that could adversely affect many people is unfair and I am glad that CT is considering it from all angles.
I was interested in what the second speaker was saying in that the current herd immunity is comprised partly of adults who had the measles but that in 2050 this won't be the case and the vaccine immunity is less reliable than natural immunity. She also differentiate between people who were at great risk of dying of measles and those who would simply be miserable for a couple of weeks.

amother

Slategray

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 9:53 am

southernbubby wrote:

Even women who had measles only pass the immunity to the infant for 6 months. Is measles a failed product? Measles is more dangerous under age 2. Look at what is happening in the Congo and Samoa

I think what she meant was that a woman whose vaccine immunity has waned is at risk of catching measles while pregnant, so it is putting her in utero children at risk.

amother

Bronze

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 9:55 am

dancingqueen wrote:

When you start calling people Hitler, you lose a lot of credibility.

I didn't mean to call anyone Hitler chas vsholom
I meant that concept of blaming a group for one owns failures isn't a new one
It's all the way back in the parsha too
I'll explain more later

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 10:05 am

amother [ Slategray ] wrote:

I think what she meant was that a woman whose vaccine immunity has waned is at risk of catching measles while pregnant, so it is putting her in utero children at risk.

So maybe the reality is that some people are better served by having measles and some by being vaccinated but according to speaker #2, 38% of people who were exposed in some measles epidemics, didn't catch it and didn't have a history of it. What happens in cases where there are no vaccines but the child fails to catch the disease? History teaches us that soldiers, pregnant women, and other adults indeed did develop measles prior to vaccines.

amother

Peach

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 10:07 am

southernbubby wrote:

I am happy you spent the time to listen to Shiva, Dr. Tatyana, and Dr. Palevsky. Whether you agree or disagree, there is a whole lot of information that is being swept under the carpet so to speak that would devilify those who dont vaccinate. Not vaccinating may not be the answer for select illnesses like meningitis, but if vaccinating doesn't protect someone from being an asymptomatic carrier, the entire premise of protecting the immunocompromised is wrong. More research needs to be done.

amother

Slategray

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 10:18 am

southernbubby wrote:

The accepted science is that anyone born before 1957 is assumed to have had it because most people catch it when exposed.

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 10:28 am

amother [ Slategray ] wrote:

The accepted science is that anyone born before 1957 is assumed to have had it because most people catch it when exposed.

Basically, current herd immunity is based on the premise that anyone age 63 or older had the disease and that when vaccines were introduced, a large segment of society was naturally immune. I personally was born in '55 and had not contracted measles as a child, nor was the vaccine that I received, effective. I am now vaccinated but according to speaker #2, this immunity from a shot this late in life is short term.

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 10:45 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

The vilification is more about obvious lies being spread and assertions on social media that some people are exempt from the responsibility for public health. It is hard to be in someone's corner when they put their child's health against mine.
If this had not been the case, every Jew would take up the cause for those who are denied a Jewish day school education due to a government edict. Our own people saw their children's safety being sold down the river by some very selfish and deluded people and the voices of people who had been vaccine injured were not the ones being heard.
Obviously none of us would expect someone who had a medical reason to stop vaccinating or to avoid being vaccinated to do it anyway but the narrative on social media so angered the public that they only saw the threat to themselves.
Obviously the narrative needs to change.

amother

Peach

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 10:52 am

southernbubby wrote:

If the risk assessment has never been done and a parent does not know whether their child is at risk or not, why should public health trump that individuals childs health? That is not fair either.

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 10:58 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

If the risk assessment has never been done and a parent does not know whether their child is at risk or not, why should public health trump that individuals childs health? That is not fair either.

Children who are malnourished, living in slums, etc are at greater risk of death according to speaker #2, than are wealthy children living in CT which has some of the wealthiest neighborhoods in America.
Wouldn't you agree after hearing speaker #2 that some populations should not catch measles?

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 11:02 am

southernbubby wrote:

Absolutely. So each mother should make the decision if measles or the vaccine is the lesser of the two evils. And if the vaccine is, she should go ahead and vaccinate the child so he's protected. Why the need to force others to give it if their assessment led to different choices?

amother

Peach

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 11:05 am

southernbubby wrote:

Then why is it ok for public policy to mandate the wealthy, not at risk of measles death in CT to vaccinate, when in reality the vaccine can have a risk for those wealthy healthy children?

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 11:30 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

If I was a pregnant teacher, and there was an outbreak of measles, I would want every precaution taken.

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 11:32 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

Then why is it ok for public policy to mandate the wealthy, not at risk of measles death in CT to vaccinate, when in reality the vaccine can have a risk for those wealthy healthy children?

Very hard to separate public policy for rich and poor but the homeless have a lot to loose if they catch measles.

amother

Peach

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 11:40 am

southernbubby wrote:

If I was a pregnant teacher, and there was an outbreak of measles, I would want every precaution taken.

Yes as Dr. Tatyana stated. Public health policy is in place that in the event of an outbreak, there is a quarantine on those who are unvaccinated and should probably extend to anyone who is not immune, even if vaccinated to really be effective.

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 11:48 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

We saw mixed behavior during the Rockland county outbreak and some defiance against Ed Day and DeBlasio so are there leaders in the anti-vax movement who would encourage the non-vaccinated children to stay home or would they go to the Atrium in bus loads to push their agenda and then wonder why we can't be as fair minded as CT?
And yes, some non-vaccinated children spent weeks at home, to the credit of their parents.

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 12:22 pm

Also, if malnutrition raises the risk of death, the government would have the right to assume that children being fed through SNAP and WIC fall into that category and need to be vaccinated against measles. Why would the government assume that this doesn't apply to frum kids due to Tomchei Shabbos and other charities?