On children | Imamother

Zehava

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 10:55 am

And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children.
And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.

nchr

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:02 pm

And the moral of this story is that less than 5% of people are worthy to bare children.. yet almost 100% of our community wants them. How do you reconcile the two?

Zehava

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:12 pm

nchr wrote:

Do you think people should stop having children?

I think that people should break the cycle and begin treating their children with the respect any human being deserves.

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:18 pm

Nothing in itself is enough. But again, I really do see the wonderful moms around me- who are trying their best
and I believe that love is life

nchr

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:25 pm

Zehava wrote:

I think that people should break the cycle and begin treating their children with the respect any human being deserves.

Cycle aside. Most people are not up to that level of parenting. We're very much absorbed in our work, relationships, dreams, finances, and more. So what should people do who live in a community where children are a certainty and not a choice?

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:27 pm

nchr wrote:

Would love to hear your opinion nchr!

nchr

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:27 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Nothing in itself is enough. But again, I really do see the wonderful moms around me- who are trying their best
and I believe that love is life

I disagree with this premise. Almost anyone will love their offspring. However, frum people just have children because it is expected. It wasn't a choice. I don't know how to explain it. Loving your children is so easy and doesn't come with any sense of responsibility or credibility. However, I don't think that means frum parents are intrinsically bad either. I just wonder if there would be a greater sense of "parenting" if children were not certain and were a choice.

Last edited by nchr on Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

Zehava

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:28 pm

nchr wrote:

Exactly

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:30 pm

nchr wrote:

I feel that in my circle of friends- I see committed parents- both in love responsibility and credibility. I am lucky to have found my place among people who really care to change things. We are may slip up at times because- yes we’re human- but we are all working on doing as best we can

nchr

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:31 pm

Zehava wrote:

Exactly

However, your rhetoric has demands thay are above what 95% of the population can do. People can try their best. Children are tougher than your poem makes them out to be. Non perfect parents can still be great parents and raise great children. I'm so far from perfect and rely on nannies way too much. But I'm ok with that. I just try to give my children 100% when I'm with them. However, if a mother is with them all day can she really do that? Can you expect that?

Zehava

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:32 pm

nchr wrote:

When you change your mindset it’s not that hard. It requires a change of attitude which yes is hard work, but not that much work day to day.

amother

Honeydew

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 2:00 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I agree. And I also have close relationships with people in similar socioeconomic groups for whom each child is more of a choice. And I don't see them showing more responsibility, credibility or commitment than my peer group does. BH there is so much awareness, education and growth mindset today.

amother

Cerise

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 2:14 pm

That poem is beautiful, but with my 5 very different children, I cant see how I could manage to be that perfect. Each child is it's own world, and once I've figured out how to parent in a way that attempts to correct mistakes I previously made with that child, the child goes through a new stage of development with challenges more baffling than the stage before. And this is happening with 5 children, simultaneously. So mistakes are constantly happening, I am always triggered from my own "stuff", and I fall so short of the ideals expressed in the poem. But I love them so completely, I literally devote my life to them, and trying to understand them, and parent in a way that heals and doesn't hurt.

(And they go to school, so they are "parented" by less than desirable peers and teachers making their mistakes, as well...so their wounds and self concept are not entirely in my control....)

How can I ever be good enough? Love just seems to have to be "enough"...

Zehava

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 2:16 pm

This poem says exactly that. Each child is their own world. Each has their own destiny. We should not try to mold them to be like each other or like us.