I need desperate advice and how would u deal?

imasinger

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 8:01 am

I'd do it like this.

Step 1. DH and you have a conversation with DS where you ask him to explain what happened, and what he thinks he should have done differently. The two of you listen and praise any insight he shows into what he did wrong.

(Compare his mindset to if you start off by yelling at him, which will get him in a defensive mindset.)

2. You then calmly explain how the family was inconvenienced/upset by his behavior, and that none of you want this to happen again.

3. You then present whatever consequence you think is logical. BestBubby suggested grounding, several people suggested he pay for the cab. If you don't want to do a full grounding, you could say he has to keep an earlier curfew, or no more m"sh socializing for a month, or whatever.

4. You follow it with a plan for the future, with clearly spelled out consequences.

Hatzlacha!

amother

Hotpink

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 8:35 am

Id also want to address the affect and message on my younger children. You need to be the parent and appropriate parental authority and respected. Good middos and mentchlikeit encouraged and rewarded. Id give a consequence to address this occurrence and set up for a calm non punitive system to address the future. He needs to earn back privileges and trust. Id at least convey disappointment if nothing else as well as confidence he can learn and do better. Sorry but what you describe...I would never have dared do anything like that to my parents. Not saying he is not a good kid just that there has to be a major resetting of the family system.
hugs and hatzlocha

amother

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 8:44 am

Thank you for the advices.

I can try talk to him . Im not soo sure he will listen up. Hes either gna yell since thats his guilty reaction most of the times .

S/o mentioned I was being immature.. exactly in what way?? All I did was I went home put the kids to sleep and I went to sleep myself. What other step was I supposed to take?
Regarding stopping in front of his friends, that is what I would do . My dh was the driver this time and my dh didnt wanna stop in front of the friends . I dont know why , could be he still wanted to respect that. My ds is 15 . I think he is still young, I was very against he take a car so late @ night . This time I just no control , he ignored, hasnt picked up for us .
Its not first time he is not counting on a timing... but here was worse since he saw us circling, he saw us waiting and he couldn't careless , he had no intentions to hurry up .
I do know the party was over . He stood outside with 2 boys smhoozing , the rest of boys had already left by the time we came to get him . He always thinks he has to be the last one leaving wherever he is. Im so aching just to think about it . Of course im expecting money back, I just had to give money since I know if hadnt I, this would end bad . He wouldve woke the kids , scare the kids , ... I had to prevent that from happening. I really have to find a way how to go about this. Im very upset . Honestly, l lost sleep too since he made lots of noise walking around , spending on the phone untill 4 . To me this doesnt add up . He does have a behavior issues with following along. I once didnt give him permission to go to a friend for shabbos, me and dh felt that week it didnt come he should go. We did not allow, suddenly he called up a cab and off he went . I was crying all shabbos. Is he going to bad places ? No.
I know where he is and which surroundings . I know I dont need to worry . Not bad influence or bad friends . No he doesnt drink . He usually has serious very frum friends. Its just the disrespect towards me and dh . If you'd asked me if we were too harsh on him other times , no were very easy and lienient with him. Does he have resentments? Not that I can think of . We give him space, we give him a lot to make him happy . Im really taking this hard . I hope hope he outgrows this fast.

groovy1224

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 8:46 am

Gonna give you some tough love here. I hate to be harsh but I think it needs to be said so here goes

Your son is taking you for a ride and you are letting him. And this isn't the first time you've posted about him.

You let him stay out longer than originally planned. Okay. You drive up, he sees you, but ignores you. Not okay. You call him several times, he ignores you. Even less okay. He keeps you waiting for AN HOUR and ignores your calls. Absolutely unacceptable. And you and your dh just sit there because you want to respect his wishes of not being interupted when he's with friends?? Like you're his personal driver and you wait where he tells you? He is pushing to see how far his parents will let him take this little game, and to his pleasure he learned that he can take it pretty much as far as he wants. And his siblings were witness, and probably took some good notes.

And then he comes home to a sleeping household, crashing around for money, threatening to let a stranger in your home and you just direct him to the cash??

I think you and your dh need to speak to someone yesterday. Besides the discipline issue here, you need to work on yourselves to be able to recognize what should be, and what it is, and how far apart those two are. You are not a punching bag, you are not an ATM, you are not a chauffeur, you are not a maid. Why are you letting him treat you like one? (I'm not asking sarcastically, I'm asking seriously. Explore inside yourself why, after he proves time and time again that he does not appreciate or deserve your extra considerations and priveleges, why you keep giving them anyway. Often it's some combination of 'keeping the peace' and a self esteem issue, but you need to get to the root of it asap.)

For now, take a deep breath, think about where you went wrong here, and be more prepared for the next time.

freilich

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 9:16 am

groovy1224 wrote:

OP, this.

Your son is not bad. He's just crying for firmness. He needs to see his parents acting like parents. Not like two people who are afraid of him. It's very scary for children when they see the parents are afraid. I say children, because a 15 year old is just a kid. No matter what he tries to show.

He needs firm discipline ASAP. I don't have a good recommendation for you, but I'm sure if you post your location, imamothers here will be able to guide you to the proper help.

Something like 1-2-3 parenting comes to mind. Don't give up. Daven. With hashems help you will be guided to the right help, and will grow stronger from this.

Sending you lots of hugs!!!!!!

amother

Hotpink

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 9:31 am

Yes OP I do hope you can hear what these posters are writing.

It can be all to easy to err on the side of leniency sometimes due to fear of over authoritarianism leading to "rebellion" and the like. Nor is hoping he will just outgrow this.

Neither pendulum swing is helpful.

Based on your additional posts yes I would definitely find a great mentor/guide/therapist to help get into that parenting common sense mode and any adjustments helpful to family system. You and DH need help to get on the same page and think ahead of the curve to be prepared and respond and be proactive in best consistent most effective way possible. DS is your first teen correct? Please do this for him, yourselves, and your younger children.

There is a lot conflated here. In this particular example sounds like he wanted to stay till 1:00 you "should" be able to say something like "I hear that but we can't pick you up then and not comfortable with taxi etc so what do you want to do...these are the options etc...he may not like it but it pays for you to think this through ahead of time and decide what you want to do.

and as for not picking up in front of the kids, I get it but too rigid for this scenario you describe. I would want to brainstorm with a professional as well as DH in advance if you can to set some basic guidelines, curfews, and probable scenarios especially so you are not caught deciding when tired and the like and everyone knows upfront the guidelines/rules. Its ok to be angry when he storms in your room like that while acting calmly about it. definite consequence necessary.

Not always easy but can be done and wishing you hugs and all the hatzlocha

polka dots

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 9:44 am

Copy and paste what groovy said.

Can I just add a little thought? When someone goes onto a very scary roller coaster they sit down and then pull down the bar to securely lock it in. Then you take the bar and push it strongly to see if it’s good enough. You don’t push it so it should open. You want to make sure that the bar won’t open and that you are safe.
Teens do this too. They push their parents. They don’t want the parent to yield. They want to make sure that their parent is strong. That’s what makes them feel safe.

amother

Red

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 9:45 am

naomi2 wrote:

How old is this child? Why was this a whole family outing? Why didn't your husband get out of the car after 15 min and get DC. He would have had an easier time saying goodbye to his friends if they all saw his father came to get him.

I was wondering the same. Why was the whole family there? Do parents need each other's support to pick up the child? I can understand a teenager feeling embarrassed by the whole mishpacha in the car if this is the usual modus operandi.
Seriously, one parent goes and waits down the block to respect his wishes. He's not in the car within five minutes, he loses that consideration and the parent should come out and inform him calmly that he's leaving in five, with or without him. That's it.
I wonder if op is sometimes too overprotective abt letting him participate with friends, but then not firm enough when enforcing rules and boundaries and basic respect. Op, be quick to say yes to normal group activities and quick to being firm when ur being pushed around. It seems like ur living in fear of his safety and then of this son in general. He needs a strong parent.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 9:49 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I’m sorry op. But you need real life professional help. These issues didn’t happen in one day and they will not resolve in one day either. I say this with no judgement. I need lots of help in the area of boundaries as well.

amother

Jade

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 10:12 am

OP, this isn't a one time thing is it? This isn't the only issue you're having with your son right now, is that right?
You need help in real life. Teenagers are a whole new world in parenting and getting through it requires real live help and lots of introspection. Please find a Mechanech that you respect and you and your husband get some advice based on everything happening with your son. He's only 15, there's a lot of years left to teenagehood and you want to make it through strong and connected. You're going to be fine, get help and work with your husband and in 10 years you'll laugh at this.

amother

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 10:15 am

Thank you all for all've u trying to help.

In the past we used to be firmer it didnt either halp nor did even more crazy things . We did speak to mentors, professionals, they all claimed we should be easier with him and give in . Now, that also doesnt seem to help or becomes any better. Can anyone tell me what the middle ballance is ?? I know relisticly being firmer, setting rules, wont help . Ive done that . I didnt get anywhere so far. My dh is a gentle person . Once in the blue he can loose himself , he is still human and he isnt dealing with such an easy child. So when my dh talks to him very firmly, my ds calls up the entire town (all his aunts, mentors,) that his father is abusing him . (My dh is far from an abuser , he doesnt even know how to) so in this case now we both feel lost . Not firm works nor does being easier work .. maybe I'll just include his principal to help me out with this.

Is it normal I feel depressed from this ?
I feel intimidated,
Its really affecting my health .
I know lots of ppl gave me advice to sit down with him , talk to him .... I dont feel he is capable of hearing us or taking this seriously.
I spoke to him soo many times , he just continues with his behaviour, im guessing it an out of hand situation. hes just out of control with being able to bend . I have to find out how to deal with his being impolsive . I think if someone is out of control talking to him wont help. To me it seems like he is out of control. He doesnt have the capability how to follow through. Im in new Jersey not far from monsey . If anyone knows of a good professional for impulsive behavior , I would appreciate to hear.

amother

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 10:25 am

amother [ Red ] wrote:

1) absolutely not deprived from being with friends . I mentioned before that we do give him most space we could.
2) in terms for having the family in car, because we just came from a different outing with my 2 young ones . (Not a big mishpacha)
Normally I wouldnt pull my other children out just to pick him up . We were coming from somewhere already and it was on the way to my sons friend wasnt worth it to drop kids home first. Had I known where this would take us , I would work it out differently. My dh was first hesitant to go because he knows my son and he knows most of the time my ds lets him wait . But here I knew he had his share shabbos , we gave him lots of time to spend after shabbos , I was sure he sees us he wont do this to us and I really did not want him ending up taking a car home by himself so late in the night . Ended up being we went to pick up but didn't gain anything , he ended up taking cab anyway. Had I known before...

amother

Hotpink

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 10:37 am

yes Op it is normal that you find this ongoing situation disempowering upsetting and depressing.

He calls all his friends/family when DH sets a consequence? He cries "abuse"? (assuming what you have written is accurate which it seems to be based on DS' behavior)

um....no.
He can call whomever he likes and say whatever he wants but you and DH have to be like it has nothing to do with you -- just a teen acting out in anger or looking for empathy wrongly or rightly. And I would not discuss it with anyone who calls me based on this type of call from DS Id have a ready line like 'thanks for your input I know you mean well" would not defend discuss or anything.

DH knows most of the time DS "lets him wait"? then id set a new boundary that if he does this no more rides no more outings till he proves himself able to appreciate it or at least deal with it reasonably punctually and appropriately.

assuming normal no and I would not let myself be at the mercy of him calling in his pressure by proxies. Again, assuming normal, he seems to have way too much power, control in the relationship/family.

yes please get a therapist, parenting expert, or mehanech involved. someone you vet, interview, and have a reasonable amount of confidence to take on their advice and approach. I would agree to give a certain approach an agreed upon reasonable amount of time and see if it produces better results. I do agree it seems too much words and not enough action/responsibilities/contracts/priveleges and consequences. Id look into Ross Greene approach as applies to teenagers. Different things work for different kids. Im sorry Op but based on what you have written he knows you feel intimidated (understandably) and it takes time, help, and new strategies to reset the system.

hugs and hatzlocha

amother

Ginger

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 10:56 am

I'm from Israel and don't know the options that exist in the US, but if my teenage son consistently behaved like that, I'd make every effort to get him out of the house into a פנימיה, a boarding school type system. Without coming home for Shabbat. There he could learn appropriate behavior. I'm writing this being fully triggered and angry, on the background of my own problems, so please take it with a grain of salt. We've got a young son (by far no teen yet) who's quite defiant and difficult to handle. We've already had family counseling for over two years in a row, with little success. I'm fully aware that we are too soft and permissive, we can't seem to get a grip on him. If the situation should get out of hand when he reaches his teens, I'll work on removing him from the household. Because I don't want his siblings to have a permanent bad example in front of them. Because parents have human rights, too.

amother

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 11:35 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

Bh he does dorm a whole week, but one shabbos he is home causes lots of egmes nefesh and stress . There is so much going on in his independence. Lots of other bad influence @ home coming from him. (Not off the derech thank gut, im just talking about behavior issues ) honestly, im going to start working on a place for shabbusim as well. The thing is , im worried how I will pay for that. Im paying a crazy amount for the yashiva, and plus staying by someone shabbusim will cost me even more. Imagine this stress just thinking of how I will be able to pay that. Itoh I cannat keep him home like this . I would love to. I tried, I gave my all to him , im still giving, nothing seems to help . I have to focus on the rest of my family, and I should stay healthy . So yea I clearly do take this advice to place him somewhere for even shabbos , yet it aint easy to find a place either . It will be lots of work involved.

amother

Silver

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 11:41 am

Dear OP
You need family therapy right away to reset this child's mindset towards his parents.
I have a 13 yr old who can totally be like this but we lay down the rules again and again. We are firm and gentle at the same time. BH he has settled down a lot.
If a child likes this sees his parents not taking control, he will gladly usurp their power and position.
Please therapy ASAP before he gets even more out of hand.
Children needs their independence- I know it's the most precious thing to my son. But he cannot be allowed to be a runaway wild untamed horse.

amother

Hotpink

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 11:51 am

what Silver said

depends upon the situation -- while I fully understand and empathize with the desire and solutions to send away/board etc SOMETIMES this is not the best approach -- sometimes it is about building and strengthening the connection and learning how to parent teens even difficult ones -- SOMETIMES it sends the wrong message to the kid and the other kids as well and SOMETIMES not good patterns and dynamics just get played out later as the younger kids become teens

hatzlocha