I need desperate advice and how would u deal?

SixOfWands

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 11:52 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Bh he does dorm a whole week, but one shabbos he is home causes lots of egmes nefesh and stress . There is so much going on in his independence. Lots of other bad influence @ home coming from him. (Not off the derech thank gut, im just talking about behavior issues ) honestly, im going to start working on a place for shabbusim as well. The thing is , im worried how I will pay for that. Im paying a crazy amount for the yashiva, and plus staying by someone shabbusim will cost me even more. Imagine this stress just thinking of how I will be able to pay that. Itoh I cannat keep him home like this . I would love to. I tried, I gave my all to him , im still giving, nothing seems to help . I have to focus on the rest of my family, and I should stay healthy . So yea I clearly do take this advice to place him somewhere for even shabbos , yet it aint easy to find a place either . It will be lots of work involved.

Please don’t do that. Paying someone to take your son on the rare occasion he’s home is basically sending him the message that you no longer want him to be part of the family. That’s not a good message, for him or for your younger kids.

I didn’t get through your whole post, tbh. But I get the idea. I’m not of the omg, he’s out of control, this is the worst crowd. He sounds like a pretty normal kid pushing boundaries. And you need to push back by setting them. Since he had a phone, you should have texted that you were giving him 5 minutes, and then coming in for him. And should have texted before you left.

For the future, set rules. If you want to go out, you will be ready when we say. We will be there at TIME. (But time has to be reasonable. You can’t tell him to leave at 9 if the usual time for everyone else is 1.). You will be out. If you’re not out, we will give you one call with a 5 minute warning. Pick up, don’t pick up, doesn’t matter. That’s it. After 5 minutes, we leave (or we come in, your call), and we don’t pay for cabs. If you cannot live with the rules,you can’t go.

amother

Amber

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 11:57 am

SixOfWands wrote:

OP,

You set what curfew time is correct for your family - not what everyone else is doing. 9:00 is plenty late if your son needs to get up early Sunday morning.

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:10 pm

I highly recommend reading this book.

Beyond Time-Out: From Chaos to Calm
By Beth A. Grosshans and Janet H. Burton

It is more geared for parenting younger kids but it talks a lot about training your family so that the parents are in charge and not the kids. I found it very helpful. I think it is a must read for every parent! (Younger kids or older kids)

Hopefully your local library has it or maybe look for other parenting books that are geared for teens.

Hatzlacha Raba!

amother

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:12 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Thanks! I will look into it

wantavaca

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:13 pm

Op, this issue has less to do with your son and much more to do with you and your dhs permissive parenting. You need to empower yourselves to set boundaries and stick to them ASAP. Until then you will see more of the same behavior or worse....
Good luck! Wishing you hatzlacha and naches...

Zehava

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:18 pm

This obviously didn’t start today nor will it end with anyone’s advice on this thread. I sense it’s not just permissive parenting.
It’s a victim mentality on the part of the mom. Something in her needs to be the victim always, even of her kids.
It’s labeling. I’m guessing this child was labeled a problem child since he was little and is just doing what’s expected of him.
It’s “running around to experts” turning him into more of a problem AND yoyo’ing between parenting methods.
Because the point isn’t the method. Firm or permissive or both.
The point is the mothers projection on her son and her need to be a victim.
All of these posts are part of that.
It didn’t begin today and it won’t end tomorrow. Probably not ever.

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:32 pm

Zehava wrote:

What a super obnoxious unhelpful comment.

You have someone in pain asking for advice and the response "the problem isn't going to go away becuase you just need to be a victim so it's all your fault".

And if that's not enough this comment is full of the self righteous labeling and projections that it is raving against.

amother

Hotpink

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:43 pm

Op even if he's away or you do decide to look for a place for shabbosim and honestly where would you send him for shabbosim? and if nothing else why give the message that you cannot handle him or setting and enforcing appropriate boundaries? not blaming you some kids are more challenging than others and results not guaranteed still I would want to try something more productive and success oriented consistently first. sometimes thats ok to send away when necessary but would keep trying everything before going to that...you do not need to swing between all or nothing permissive or authoritarian and yes it can be tough to find and set that balance...I would encourage you to use the opportunity to look for a more workable long term approach for you when dealing with him/parenting a teen difficult or otherwise -- he will be home for Pesach, Y"T, summers....after yeshivah...your relationship is life long. and affects you, him, your whole family.
hatzlocha

amother

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:46 pm

Zehava wrote:

That was the meanest post ive ever seen.
U putting up your assumptions here and describing them as facts?? No that is not @ all the case . This last sentence what u wrote . . . I look @ it kind of cursing. That is never good . If u told me a huge percentage of parents who knew how to do parenting right especially beginning, dealing with the oldest , I would proove u wrong . Most parents full in and learn from experiences. Almost no one. unless someone came from 100% PERFECT childhood and really had the perfect models from where to learn it, only then I can believe that they'd know how to parent so well. Yea , I do agree I made mistakes theroughout my parenting , labeling the child ? How can u say this ? U have no proof of any way how we really parent in the house . How can u come so harshly and say this??!!! Happens to be, no. we do not label as a problem , and we would never tell him anything like that in his face . Usually we do talk over with mchanchim when it comes to these issues . . . , and with that said if im the problem why dont I see this behavior in my other kids ?? If I really am the victem here I should see in my other kids as well, bh we only have this 1 difficult child , (no kid is prfect but my other kids we can handle more) which im sure he will outgrow it, and yea, I do c potential in him and in us if were considered bad parents.

Anyway I hope I did misread your post. Im sure im missing here someting or didn't understand your post correctly yet it cant be otherwise...

amother

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:47 pm

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

Op even if he's away or you do decide to look for a place for shabbosim and honestly where would you send him for shabbosim? and if nothing else why give the message that you cannot handle him or setting and enforcing appropriate boundaries? not blaming you some kids are more challenging than others and results not guaranteed still I would want to try something more productive and success oriented consistently first. sometimes thats ok to send away when necessary but would keep trying everything before going to that...I would encourage you to use the opportunity to look for a more workable long term approach for you when dealing with him/parenting a teen difficult or otherwise -- he will be home for Pesach, Y"T, summers....after yeshivah...your relationship is life long. and affects you, him, your whole family.
hatzlocha

A good point.

amother

Cyan

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:48 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You’re on here posting and wanting to grow. Wanting the best for your child. You will see results. You will.

amother

Hotpink

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:49 pm

oy

I hear you

some kids are tough no matter what results not guaranteed despite best efforts -- and sometimes there can still be a "solution" or improvement discovered

no judging

I am sure you are trying your best and beyond

it can be heart breakingly challenging

wishing you and everyone much nachas from all our kinder

mommy3b2c

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:51 pm

Zehava wrote:

Sorry zehava. I agree that the problem didn’t begin today but the rest of your armchair diagnosis is really just unfair. There are a million reason why the dynamic ended up like this. But it can definitely be changed. They just all need help. I can relate so much to her pain and helplessness and being told these scathing comments by you are not going to help her. There are nicer ways to say things.

amother

Cyan

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:54 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Yes
I’ve been in tough situations with my kids- where I felt literally blind and so so helpless...
With no clue as to where to turn but wanting so bad the best for them...

ohmygosh

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:56 pm

Zehava wrote:

One of the most disgusting posts I've seen in a while.

So many assumptions that I'm guessing are likely false.

What a way to put down a human being instead of helping her.

OP, PLEASE ignore this post.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 12:58 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Im just in so much pain now , phisicly and emotionally. I just need advice how u would deal were you in my shoes??

My dc wanted to go to a friend for shabbos . It was hard for me to let since I needed dc home but I decided to let dc go. We discussed that I will come pick dc up 8:30 after shabbos . Comes after shabbos , dc calls me that have a melava malka so wants to stay longer . I said ok , I will come pick u up by 11 . (It wasnt an official melava malka for yashiva.... it was just a few friends. If was a yashiva thing I wouldnt have a choice and would have to let until 1 .) This wasnt the case here. Comes 11 I call to say that should get ready since I will be there like after 11 . Dc started saying that it wont end before 1 but since I didnt feel comfortable dc should take a taxi so late, I decided I wanna pick up around after 11, I felt it was late anyways and dc was away with freinds over shabbos, so had share.
It was a 20 minute drive , me and dh went we had the younger kids in car . I call up dc to let know I'll be there in a few minutes . I kept calling, no answer . We drove down to where the melava malka took place . We saw our child outside with 2 friends so seemed like party was over too . I waved , dc saw me but we parked further down since my dc never like when we stop right next to friends so we respect this. I did tell him before where I will be waiting . So I call dc to say im here , dc says ma 5 minutes more . Ok , we waited 5 10 15 20 minutes. No show . I call dc a couple of times , no answer . I circle around again me and dh see him clearly with 2 friends smhoozing. My dh didnt stop him since my dh has this policy that he doesnt stop dc with friends . Dc doesnt like so dh respects it. So we went back to the parking where we waited before , I tried calling dc . No answer . And I knew dc is there outside @ friends house because we saw him . I did say dh should stop my dc @ his friends it wouldve been 2bad , he let us wait , he knows were waiting , he doesnt follow along so consequence would be that we needed to stop @ friend but dh said he not gna do it . So we waited and waited and waited . It got later and later and later . Dc doesnt pick up phone , it was almost an hour and no show . Until we decided to leave . I was very upset, so was my husband . Dc plain ignored us!!!
I came home , no phone call from dc , it was really frustrating. Untill we both decided we going to sleep and so we did .
Afew minutes later , my husband already slept and while I was almost asleep dc knocks on my bedroom door . He needs money for taxi . I said tatty is sleeping and I dont have he was yelling and almost waking up everybody else in the house , so I told dc to take out money from my coat pocket but I will need back the money .
He is most of the time a very irresponsible child . Im having sooo much pain right now.. I was being good let go dc should have a good time shabbos . I gave in to stay longer , me and dh went out of the way to pick him up.
I forgot to mention earlier that after me and dh left .. when we arrived home he called up my husband why we left . That was an hour later , it was after we tried many times to reach him, and he ignored us . My husband told dc we going to sleep already, so dc knew , and he still came to my bedroom to wake us up and making noise . I really did not wanna pay for taxi , I came to pick dc up . Dc was loosing out. Now dc asking for money for taxi. I told dc can take money since was late @ night. Everyone sleeping , I couldnt afford he should wake up everyone.
I know that is real unacceptable and inappropriate behavior. I feel my widths end right now. I feel drained and sooo mad . I wanna sleep it over and see how I can approach my dc tomorrow. Right now I feel so angry. I would love to hear how others would deal in this case . Im really not an expert in chinich and I feel like im going to loose it , but I wanna deal it right . Right now I dont feel how I can see this child tomorrow, and I dont know what dc thinks . He did something really not behaving. And the yelling @ my bedroom door while I was trying to sleep. Dc yelled he will let the taxi driver into the house if I dont pay . I didnt want this to get worse so I just said take money from my pocket . Im just so lost . Im surprised. Shocked on my dc . He is usually irresponsible, I can never trust him but didn know this far that dc sees parents and know we came to pick up and knew where to meet us and never showed up , did not pick up phone and let us wait an hour without any responsibility . Im crying . Im in pain. I have tzar .. he is a very yiras shumayim type of kid erlich . I wish he deals and have kibid av too , not just the learning and davening . I want him to be mentclich as well. Im glad I have where to cry out my heart and maybe someone can help me out how to approach this ?

I think u and your dh need to seek professional help and learn new parenting skills. As I read your story, I kept thinking, “who’s the child and who’s the parent here?” You should not put up with dc ignoring you when you’ve all gone out so late at night-even your younger kids (?!). You’ve trained him to know you’ll put up with all his irresponsible behavior and he’s making shmatas out of u and your dh. Please get therapy for all of u.

amother

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 1:35 pm

ohmygosh wrote:

Thank you ! It means a lot to me by being of understanding.

amother

Puce

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 2:18 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My dc wanted to go to a friend for shabbos . It was hard for me to let since I needed dc home but I decided to let dc go.
?

OP, I read your whole post and many responses (not all) but I keep coming back in my mind to the above statement.
Can you please explain why you needed him home?
I might be projecting but I can’t help but wonder if this is a boy with a very stressful and demanding home life looking for escape.

amother

Hotpink

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 2:22 pm

thats a good question and good for Op reflecting as sometimes it does benefit to separate the issues and let the kid go for "their own good".

the answer can even be because I can't be out at midnight picking him up or something....

15 is very different than younger, while not 18 does require more flexibility/different rules

a good professional can help parse out family dynamics, walk through concrete situations, give frame of reference, and tweak dynamics and parenting in a custom tailored fit for best success IY"H

amother

Cyan

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 2:29 pm

OP-
The most liberating thing I’ve done was gotten someone to help me with my challenging son. I didn’t realize what a heavy burden I was carrying- a burden that was way to heavy for me to carry alone. Now I have someone guiding me and I don’t feel so lost. The therapist did a school visit- and now I have an ally there. He offered a home visit to observe as well but I am not brave enough yet!
It’s good for you to even have someone more knowledgeable than us to pose these questions to! You’ll feel so much more at ease.
It’s a tough tough journey-
And I wish you only the best
Make sure to take care of yourself as well
Hugs
ETA:
I didn’t follow the whole thread. If you’re already receiving help please forgive me. Also- you may need a better fit for you