Same name as live grandparents

amother

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 8:02 am

My husband wants to name after a relative of his who was niftar recently, but I have a living grandparent with the same names (opposite order) and I'm not comfortable using the name. Any similar experiences? I feel like I'd be ok with using the same name as an aunt, uncle, sibling etc but not a living parent or grandparent? Or would you use the first name of the relative, which is the grandparents second name and not the used name? And if I'd combine the one name with another name am I really doing nothing and just making up any name Wink

amother

Ginger

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 8:33 am

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

I would never. We recently had this scenario and my husband asked his Rav who said we should for sure not use the name.

We had this scenario. We were told that Ashkenazim don't do it, even if the living grandparent will never find out. (Eg if he is senile.)
And in my case, it was a third name of the live grandparent and one that he was not called by. It didnt matter.

dankbar

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 8:52 am

If you only name after deceased relatives, a name that a different living grandparent has, can't get used.

I have a relative that this happened to, without realizing it & psak was to make another kiddush & add a name to baby & go by new name as long as other gparent, bearing the name, is alive.

iyar

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 9:06 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Ask your Rabbi. Might not be permitted.

Ellie7

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 10:03 am

I mean, ask your rabbi, but pretty sure that per Igrot Moshe this would actually be fine. He says that a person’s full name is one unit that is the name. So Menachem Mendel is a name, and Mendel Menachem and Menachem and Mendel are all totally different names.

Now, we may not do this in practice, but halachically it might actually be fine.

malki2

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 10:19 am

With this stuff, you’ll get a different answer from each rabbi. So just ask your own rabbi and go with that. I will just add that for the sake of Sholom, it is advisable to get the consensus of both sets of grandparents. Meaning that if you choose to use the name, it should be with the blessing of the live grandparent. And if you don’t, you should explain it to the other grandparents and make sure that they understand. Definitely don’t use a name if it will offend someone forever.

sky

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 10:30 am

I heard if it was after a parent you can ask the grandparent permission.

I know a great-grandmother who was not asked (baby was named after a grandparents) and it bothers her constantly. Not sure it’s worth it.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 10:49 am

I've heard of people doing something that has commonality with the name they wanted to give. E.g. for Yehuda, Aryeh. For Miriam, Efrat (or Puah) etc.

agreer

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 11:08 am

No way. I'd never. It's extremely disrespectful to the living grandparent. Your husband's "relative" is not more important than your grandparent (op's term).

I was told during my shidduch quest that the same names in different order is still the same name. So yosef yitzchok is different than yosef Yehuda, but would be the same as yitzchok yosef.

Ask a rav to confirm, but you are well within your right to refuse.

amother

Chocolate

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 11:14 am

Ask the grandparent. Some people are superstitious and some are not.

I know a case where a young mother wanted to name after her father who had recently died, but her father-in-law had the same name. He gave the new parents permission and a bracha because he understood how much it meant to her. And I also know a young man who lost his father when he was a child. When his first son was born, he wanted to use the name, but it was one of his father-in-law's names. The father-in-law wasn't comfortable with it, and they gave a related name.

Different families, different ways of doing things.

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Mar 02 2020, 3:49 am

My grandfather and father have the same name. (Side point, so does my great uncle, my grandfathers brother in law. I’m only related to my great uncle by marriage. Very Happy

). When my grandfather was niftar, my brother asked my father how he feels about it and he said no. He changed the name around a little. He named him one of the avos because that name was also his name. He added a second name because conveniently my grandfathers last name can easily be changed a little to a first name. Now we have a few of them in the family and everyone is happy.

fleetwood

Mon, Mar 02 2020, 4:05 am

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

My dad,died over 40 years ago,. I had only girls, finally,my sister at age 38 had a boy!! But our dad and her father in law,have the same name. He gave permission,but she couldn't bring herself to name her son,her living father in laws name.

amother

Salmon

Mon, Mar 02 2020, 4:46 am

B'shaah Tovah!

Yes ask your rav.

And halacha and mesorah can in no way shape or form be compared to "superstitious" cvs.

amother

Chocolate

Mon, Mar 02 2020, 4:52 am

fleetwood wrote:

Totally understandable. This is an area of life where feelings matter.

nchr

Mon, Mar 02 2020, 5:03 am

Ellie7 wrote:

Munkatch paskens this as well. I.e. brothers Yosef Tzvi and Yakov Yosef.

Also, OP are you referring to names like Baruch and Bracha or Yehuda and Yehudis/Livia or Alta and Alter? That would be totally fine in my community. Or do you mean a name like Simcha where the name is the same? I personally may be ok with it, but would definitely ask a Rav and follow his opinion. I'd probably consult the living grandparent as well if feasible.

amother

Green

Wed, Mar 04 2020, 1:41 am

Ask your rabbi and then follow his advice.
I have a cousin whose father in law was niftar shortly before his son was born. His father in law and his living grandfather have the same first name although his father in law had 2 names while his grandfather had 1.
They asked their rav what to do and were told that it is okay to use the name only and only if the living grandparent was okay with it.
They spoke with the grandfather who told my cousin that he would be extremely hurt if they didnt name after the wifes father just because it was his name. That he wouldnt be able to live with himself knowing that his grandsons wife was unable to name after her father because of him.
My cousin named his son afternhis father in law and my grandfather was extremely honored.

You never know what your rabbi will tell you to do but you will never go wrong with asking.