Stop saying moshiach is coming

zaftigmom

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 6:24 pm

I know we're in a scary situation. I know we haven't lived through anything like this. Stop saying moshiach is coming! We hope he's coming, we want him to come, we might even think he's coming, but I keep seeing people saying that he's coming with certainty. He didn't come after the holocaust when people had way more reason to be certain of it. It's irresponsible and misleading, especially for the children in your life, to make such an assumption. Let's daven for the geulah without setting ourselves up for a crushing disappointment.

PinkFridge

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 7:19 pm

zaftigmom wrote:

I get this loud and clear: if he doesn't come there will be disappointment and confusion for some people.
But re the bolded: Moshiach's not necessarily going to come in the direst scenarios. He really can come every day. I think that there are so many unique features to this corona phenomenon that it is understandable that people are seeing Moshiach everywhere.

PinkFridge

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:04 pm

giselle wrote:

What are the unique features?

I have to think this through. Because a world wide epidemic - you can go to 1918. Ditto for other things that come to mind. But add it all together...Oh, shuls being closed down by the government isn't new but that it's not just us, but everyone? There are definite vibes of this being something different than we've experienced before.

amother

Teal

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:05 pm

Yes!!!!
I have concerns that when people see all these messages about moshiach being imminent, and then it isn't here yet,

It leads to 2 possible problems:

1- the thought that we need not change or improve as its imminent regardless

2- discouragement when time passes and it isn't here yet.

but....Halevai bKarov!!!

zaftigmom

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:09 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

All this is so true. I just don't like the certainty some people are expressing. Hopefully this is it. We just don't know until we know and it's not helpful to think that we do.

giselle

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:09 pm

Maybe the line of thinking is that Hashem sends these things as a message, and if we take it to heart and change what we need to, then we'll be deserving of Mashiach. People are asking what will change when this is all over, but will anything really change? Maybe that's the problem.

Kinor Dovid

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:13 pm

zaftigmom wrote:

All this is so true. I just don't like the certainty some people are expressing. Hopefully this is it. We just don't know until we know and it's not helpful to think that we do.

Agree.

He can come any day any time.
Moshiach isn’t colour war .

amother

Orange

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:17 pm

We anticipate Moshiach every day and its crushing every day that passes without his arrival. It is NOT wrong to say Moshiach is coming now. It is amazingly good and beautiful to see how close we truly are. It's sad that only now we have Moshiach on our minds that should be constant. Basic Beiur Tefilah darling. Banging head

octopus

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:17 pm

People have to learn from Jewish history. Whenever there was hype of a false mashiach, there was a tremendous weakening spiritually in klal yisrael. Stop being nivei sheker. We always wait for mashiach. We also need to do teshuva! But the hype is misplaced spirituality. This is a tremendous eis tzara. Daven and do teshuva. This is the takeaway.

octopus

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:19 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

The hype is potentially dangerous. Of course everyone hopes and prays for mashiach.

amother

Cerulean

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:20 pm

When Yaakov was waiting for his meeting with Eisav, he davened for "spaces between the camps." Meforshim explain that he was making a poel dimyon - that when the yidden would experience the birth pangs of Moshiach, they should have spaces between the "contractions" - or else how would the Jewish people withstand the transition?

Rav Chaim Stein zt"l, the late European Rosh Yeshiva of Telshe, said that WWI and WWIi were milchemes Gog Umagog, PART of the transition pains of Moshiach, but there were still parts left to this birthing stage of Moshiach, and so we had a space of several decades that seemed "normal." I am completely sure that this virus/mageifah is a birth pang of Moshiach, clearing the way for the immanent revelation. But my fear is that Coronavirus is not THE LAST birth pang, that there may be another space of "normal" years before the next contraction to push the Moshiach into the world. And I am sooo tired of waiting...

Anyway, whoever read this whole post, thanks for listening : )

amother

Aqua

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:26 pm

[quote="amother [ Cerulean ]"]When Yaakov was waiting for his meeting with Eisav, he davened for "spaces between the camps." Meforshim explain that he was making a poel dimyon - that when the yidden would experience the birth pangs of Moshiach, they should have spaces between the "contractions" - or else how would the Jewish people withstand the transition?

Rav Chaim Stein zt"l, the late European Rosh Yeshiva of Telshe, said that WWI and WWIi were milchemes Gog Umagog, PART of the transition pains of Moshiach, but there were still parts left to this birthing stage of Moshiach, and so we had a space of several decades that seemed "normal." I am completely sure that this virus/mageifah is a birth pang of Moshiach, clearing the way for the immanent revelation. But my fear is that Coronavirus is not THE LAST birth pang, that there may be another space of "normal" years before the next contraction to push the Moshiach into the world. And I am sooo tired of waiting...

Anyway, whoever read this whole post, thanks for listening : )[/quote

I did read your entire post. So so beautifully said. It's making me cry as well. In a good way. I've been so frozen through this ordeal. It's almost as if I'm refusing to let myself feel. I understand that this is my body's defense mechanism in order to cope. But I'm heartbroken that I can't even daven properly.

So while everyone is talking about moshiach and praying extra hard, all I'm doing is numbing myself more.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:27 pm

Yet we are taught about Chevlei Moshiach and Gog umagog and the times of Moshiach.
So when there's something happening in the world on this level I think it's normal to think that Moshiach is coming.
I just think that we have to keep hoping, but with the knowledge that we don't know when it'll be.

amother

Cerise

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:31 pm

zaftigmom wrote:

I disagree completely. Hoping and praying and believing his arrival is imminent is what keep many people going, and prevents them from total panic and fear and worry.

Even rabbonim are saying it so you should be careful of telling people to stop saying it.

There are also clear references to people being unable to leave their homes right b4 Moshiach comes and the words קוראה נא in relation to same and other clear signs from the Navi and the Chumash.

The holocaust didn’t affect most of the world, this one is.

You can choose not to tell your kids but you shouldn’t try to stop others from saying it.

amother

Cerise

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:38 pm

octopus wrote:

Tell that to the rabbis that say he is coming very soon and point to the signs coming true b4 our eyes. Probably the reason women are so skeptical is because they’re less learned in these areas than men

giselle

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 8:42 pm

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Rabbi Akiva believed Bar Kochba was Mashiach. Rabbanim don't know - they are here to guide us and give us Chizuk, but no one actually knows.