Feel like they keep moving the goal posts

Amarante

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 1:58 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

It’s ALL political now.
No politician has the guts to reopen our country because they don’t want repercussions to come bight them back in the ***

They don’t care that a city and country, (and its people) that’s falling apart is worse that the virus at the current state.

Unfortunately it has been politicized by the right wing Trump supporters.

There is NO - NONE - NUNCA - reputable MEDICAL professional who are recommending that social distancing restrictions be lifted.

They aren't afraid of political repercussions - they are afraid of people dying from Corona - from other illnesses because no medical treatment is available. Personnel are also needed to track contacts. Those countries who have managed to flatten the curve and ease restrictions have adequate testing AND adequate personnel to track every contact so those people can isolate to minimize their infection others.

There is a way to reopen gradually but that depends on having adequate testing for disease and antibodies. The Federal government should be using its energies to get tests and personnel in place to provide that. That way those with the infection can be spotted immediately.

The Federal government needs to centralize the response to get those tests out there as well as providing personnel and funds for hiring personnel to test and monitor contacts

Dandelion1

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 2:07 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

I'm not sure what you want.
I'll try to explain myself one more time and then I'll let it go.

I am upset that we don't get explanations as to why these rules are made.

If someone asks logical questions, not only on imamother, they are being shut down.

I'm tired.

"Being shut down" seems to be code for "95% of people posting don't agree with me and are mounting clear and valid arguments against my point".

How exactly is anyone "being shut down" if these conversations go on and on for 10 pages?

amother

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 2:11 pm

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

I'm really sorry for your loss. Of course his life was worth saving. Unfortunately, the decisions are not being based on no life being lost vs some lives being lost. The decisions are being made as to which steps lead to less lives being lost. No matter what steps we take, there will sadly be lives lost.

Apparently, all leaders have come to the conclusion that being quarantined will lead to less loss of lives. Neither you nor I know all the calculations that went into that decision, but our options are to choose between the laymen's expertise or the medical directors' expertise. I fail to see how going with the former makes us all safer.

There is nothing wrong with raising our concerns and asking for answers. But that shouldn't lead to defying the rules and making unilateral decisions.

Those decisions are only as valid as the data they’re being made with. It’s uncontroverted fact the Cuomo stated he would need 30,000-40,000 ventilators at the apex. It is also uncontroverted fact that the rate of intubation has been going down consistently for at least a week and NY maybe used 15,000 at the high estimate.

Initially, even with social distancing factored in the models predicted 100,000-240,000 deaths. Now that model is at 68,000 with a likelihood of being further revised down.

The experts told us the 100,000-240,000 was with social distancing factored in, so it can’t be that social distancing then caused them to cut the model in half. It had to be that the model was flawed.

I’m not blaming the modelers or the experts for the flaw. But it is deeply disconcerting that huge life-altering and potentially life-ending decisions are being made with data that is incomplete and is continuously being downgraded.

amother

Wine

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 2:19 pm

Amarante wrote:

Thats an interesting statement considering that democrats are the ones politicizing this for their own personal gain/agenda. They dont want to pass a bill that would give more small businesses money until we give Iran money (that is bad bc the money for small businesses already ran out) and they want to give illegal aliens money as well when many citizens cant afford to put food on their table or pay rent for that matter.
And what exactly is Cuomo doing other than his daily mention of deaths in the state (which he is only doing to get more money from the feds)? The cdc issued a guideline for people to wear masks in public a while ago already but Cuomo only made it law starting tonight but that is only in some places and cant really be enforced since there are no consequences. And he keeps fighting with the mayor, who previously said would close the schools but Cuomo said no but now he backtracked and "paused" NY for another month. And that is the same day where Trump came out with guidelines on how to reopen cities. So Cuomo says that the president is not a king but then he goes and acts like a king fighting with everyone, not listening to anyone and just doing his own thing so he is just projecting himself onto Trump. All this for money from the feds.
But keep telling us how Trump supporters are somehow politicizing things while disregarding what the democrats are doing to destroy this country Banging head

amother

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 2:24 pm

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

I think both sides are politicizing. Unfortunately that’s what politicians do. The Republicans want to open up because they’re scared of the economy tanking and have a strong libertarian bent.

I think it would be naive to say that democrats aren’t trying to use this to make trump look bad because it’s an election year. Now I don’t think That they’re intentionally drawing out the lockdown to make trump look bad, but I do think that the name-calling and blaming is political.

Despicable on both sides.

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 2:30 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think what the US is doing is fairly consistent with what other COVID affected countries are doing.... so its can't be only a political issue.

amother

Powderblue

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 3:37 pm

Objective facts on the ground show areas in which low rates of fatality shows what works -- isolation, quarantine, and the like.
As inconvenient as it is. We have the "advantage" of seeing what works and putting it into practice. As challenging as it is.
As for a communist country...please you must never have lived in a communist country to make such a statement!
The public health officials could be far more draconian. The government could declare martial law. Thank G-d none of that is necessary and the vast majority of people are doing what it takes to slow the spread, learn more, gain more treatments and the like to win this war.
This is unlike any other health issue. It is an unprecedented global pandemic. Hence the unprecedented measures taken around the world. Despite their unpopularity. Despite the side effects. Its like an amputation you do what you gotta do to save life. Despite all the horrid side effects.
Its far from a football game -- these are serious stakes here. And plenty of unknown factors.
May Hashem Take us out of this galus.

amother

Bronze

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 4:12 pm

groisamomma wrote:

Just curious, what would your ideal government do at a time like this?

Be honest about the fact that masks save lives, so less people would die. They have blood on their hands, plain and simple. The CDC advised people to take poison with full knowledge it would kill them, but you can't sue or press charges because they're the CDC. Now everyone thinks that minyanim and mikvaos kill, walking outside is dangerous, and masks are useless. Some actual scientific data and guidance coming from the CDC would be nice. They've lost all credibility. They're a Trump proxy, and Trump is Trump.

amother

Bronze

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 6:13 pm

Supermom#1 wrote:

people see the light at their own pace....better late than never! Smile

Believing in vaccines is not because of governments. It's because of extensive medical research. Not that this should become a pro or anti vaccine thread, but smallpox is way more dangerous than COVID-19, but you don't see the world shut down over it because it no longer exists. Most evidence points to vaccines being there reason for that. The scientific evidence for that is bigger than any government body out there. Smallpox was a global issue, which no longer exists. (I don't know if that can be repeated enough. One of the most deadly killers of the past thousand years, with a 30% mortality rate, no longer exists, according to all scientific data. It is touted by many as possibly the greatest coordinated medical accomplishment of all time. Chasdei Hashem ki lo samu, ki lo chalu rachamav.)

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 6:22 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

It's ironic that you use smallpox, which we no longer vaccinate for, as your example of trusting governments on vaccines. If you want to talk vaccines, let's talk diptheria, pertussis, tetanus, rotavirus, etc. etc. There's a lot to unpack there.

amother

Bronze

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 6:34 pm

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

It's unnecessary to vaccinate for smallpox, being as the disease doesn't exist anymore. That is the ultimate goal with every vaccine. If they are effective and sufficiently universally adopted, they accomplish their goal and become no longer needed.

Whatever. Not the point. Point is that vaccine question is much bigger than just CDC or any individual government agency or country. It's the entire global medical establishment for many decades. The specific issues that came to light with federal government pandemic response are not necessarily related in any way to vaccine question.

amother

Fri, Apr 17 2020, 6:48 pm

octopus wrote:

And I don't know why but Dr faucci bothers me.
And I can't listen to conservative talk radio anymore because they are busy talking about civil liberties. Get with the program. People are dying in an unprecedented modern era pandemic. Totally out of touch. So disgusted with everybody.

He bothers you because he comes off as arrogant and out of touch. I almost blew a gasket when he called the shutdown inconvenient from an economic standpoint. That’s the same thing as calling the pandemic inconvenient from a public health standpoint. It’s not inconvenient, it’s absolutely devastating. You don’t have to minimize it. Obviously it’s only an inconvenience to him because he’s still getting paid.

Again I don’t blame him but he admits to only having the public health epidemiological standpoint. He doesn’t even claim to be trying to weigh the costs and benefits. No one is.

Also if you look into his history you’ll be less than impressed with what you find. He ignored and ignored HIV until it became impossible to ignore.
And take HIV for a prime vaccine example. 32 million people ha be died from AIDS. We’ve been trying to make a vaccine for 30 years for that and have yet to be successful. Which is why it’s ridiculous to pin all our hopes on a vaccine for this.