Moving to EY with teenagers

Rappel

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 2:44 am

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

Kudos to whoever is explaining the israeli culture clash.

Please, please think carefully before you move. When I visit my Israeli in laws I enjoy and love them but I cannot stomach the way my nieces and nephews talk. In the beginning I was practically traumatized.

That's funny. When I last visited the States, I actually had a similar reaction to how the kids were to their parents. I love those kids to death, but I found the children had a disturbing undercurrent of rebellion and disrespect, and that the parents were disconnected from their kids. BH, I didn't stereotype am entire country off of two families' chutzpah. Laugh

amother

Bronze

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 2:47 am

I'm sorry but this thread is a little out of control. Look into Beitar. Many Anglo families, at least half the class in the girls school are Anglo Haredi, no bullying, fantastic teachers. Cheder - some nasty little boys, but no different than you'd expect to find in any school system anywhere. This is Eretz Israel people. It's the culmination of the dreams of Am Yisroel for thousands of years. Now you get to pick up and come, and continue the transmission of the dream through your generations? Please.

If you need further convincing, Israel is expecting 100,000 new olim this / next year due to the country's successful handling of COVID.

Gut Shabbos x

amother

Indigo

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 2:56 am

banana123 wrote:

Sounds amazing. I want to know which school this is! Is the majority of the student body, or the principal, Anglo?

Its not only one school. it's all the DL schools I have sent my children to. The administrations are not Anglo.
Some of the schools have a large anglo student population but not all.
DS goes to a HS with a very small number of anglo students and we see the same thing there.
We live in Bet shemesh.

banana123

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 3:00 am

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

I have seen several DL schools and some are better than others in this regard (which is an understatement)....that's why I asked.
I think it's school-dependent, on sector-dependent.
Ideally what you are describing would be the national standard and default. Unfortunately, it's not....

Rappel

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 3:04 am

banana123 wrote:

Sounds amazing. I want to know which school this is! Is the majority of the student body, or the principal, Anglo?

I had a bit of an insight into the way the administration of our local girls' school, Beer Miriam , handles kids in trouble. They have weekly staff meetings, and weekly individual teacher-principal meetings, and they flag when a kid seems to be struggling. Then each teacher takes a chart, and marks off behavioural patterns in that girl while they're observing her in class - does she have her homework done, interpersonal interactions, attention, responsiveness, preparedness for class. Once they've marked her for a while, they assemble the patterns and observations into a full picture, and craft a plan to help her. I loved their attention to every kid as an individual. It really made me trust their decisions.

banana123

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 3:06 am

Rappel wrote:

I LOVE this idea.

chanchy123

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 3:12 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

Such a beautiful and inspiring post.

LovesHashem

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 3:47 am

There's bullying everywhere.
I grew up in the states and was bullied and so many people I know were bullied in the system here or the states.

I do want to say one point, and very loudly. Society is very black and white. Either you are Chareidi or Dati. And if you are Chareidi it's hardcore Chareidi - and you are already sug bet by being from chutz la'aretz which is looked at as modern and less frum. You will need to work harder to fit in.

On the other side over the past 5-10 years there has been a lot more "Gray" areas. An someone who moved at the age of 14 with my family, now being married with my own family - I have been exposed to a lot here at a teenager, and a young adult.

New schools are opening up that don't reject you if you have internet or you have a smartphone. New communities are popping up. Second generational kids like me are changing what's allowed and not allowed. And many younger israelis are too.

At the end of the day though although we may be more gray, society itself can act black and white and you still need to go along with the games and the lies to be in a community or get into a school many times.

amother

Coffee

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 5:20 am

LovesHashem wrote:

There's bullying everywhere.
I grew up in the states and was bullied and so many people I know were bullied in the system here or the states.

The question is what the school does about it. I have seen more than a few schools where principals will not call parents to pick up children who are misbehaving, where children who are bullying cannot be sent to the principal's office, where suspending a child is reserved only for very very severe infractions and hardly ever used on bullies. Where bullies are hardly ever punished at all.

Bullying is everywhere but if you don't put your foot down, it never ends. You can't prevent bullying but you can make it not worthwhile for the bully.

As an idiot spoiled Anglo, I expect the school to inform me if my child is bullying or being bullied, so that I don't find out because I discover an enormous bruise my child's shin. I expect to be told if my child is not acting appropriately, before it has gone on for three months or more. I expect that the bully will lose the rest of his/her recess if s/he punches a child in his/her broken arm. I expect that the bully will be suspended if the violence does not stop.

Unfortunately, from what I have seen of too many schools, almost nothing is done. In the US parents know that they may be called to pick up a child who is misbehaving. Here, parents are unwilling to leave work for such things. The school is babysitter and don't you dare call the parents to deal with their child's violence, if it happens during school hours, or expect the parents to enforce some kind of consequence at home, since they are too tired from work and don't have energy to discipline for things that happened during school hours.

I say this as a teacher who has taught in schools from several sectors. I say this as a parent of a child who was bullied and started trying to bully in self-protection.

Rappel

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 5:31 am

And yet, Coffee, my lovely BY NY school did nothing about the severe, systematic bullying I suffered for years. Yes, it was constant, consistent, and terrifying. It was mob rule in the classroom, and open season during recess when the teacher disappeared. This was a well known, well-established, "warm" school.

This isn't a pity post. My point is: Bullying happens everywhere. I'm sorry that your kid suffered in school - that's terrible. I don't see it happening more frequently in Israel, and I do see it happening significantly less in the Torani crowds I've had the opportunity to observe closely.

amother

Seafoam

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 6:02 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I do want to say one point, and very loudly. Society is very black and white. Either you are Chareidi or Dati. And if you are Chareidi it's hardcore Chareidi - and you are already sug bet by being from chutz la'aretz which is looked at as modern and less frum. You will need to work harder to fit in.

This!! There's no such thing as "we're haredi but maybe we'll send to a DL school if it seems nice". At least among Israelis (I don't know any 'anglos' in RL in Israel, so I don't know what's happening with them). I have met many haredim who do see anglos as more modern and less frum, and to be fair, there's some truth to this at times. I first encountered religious anglos in Givat Shmuel and without getting into lashon hara territory, a lot of stuff was going on there which I wouldn't expect from religious people. Things which are ok to do in chutz l'aretz are not ok here and groups are more clear cut.

It takes a while to find your niche here. And it's hard to move around with kids and constantly uproot them. I've heard good things about the Berman Shul in Rehovot. Seems very welcoming. Might be worth adding to your list of options.

chanchy123

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 6:21 am

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

I actually know several Chareidi families who sent some kids to DL schools. They are not mainstream chareidi but they do exist.
My DD has a girl from Beitar in her Ulpana for instance, because it’s the right fit for her (this is not an at-risk child in any way it’s a super academic school).

essie14

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 6:35 am

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

Berman shul in Rehovot is indeed extremely welcoming but not in any way, shape or form charedi. It's LW DL.

Rappel

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 7:13 am

Well, here's to hoping for closer ties. I think human nature creates it's own "golden path", and social extremism is edited out over time naturally. I think it would be lovely if the DL and haredi circles melded - there is no reason to be seperate, and there is no essential difference between Torani and haredi.

I know this post is far from the OP, but I think it's important to emphasize that change is in the air: I found it very encouraging that we found common ground during this last election. Many Torani felt un-represented by the Yamina conglomerate, and voted for Shas and UTJ instead. (Especially after UTJ made promises to pick up the banner for hityashvut and DL yeshivot/ulpanot, along with efforts to kasher the IDF.) I think we can and should stand together and unite our strengths. The Torah is universal, and it's primacy is something we can all agree on.

LovesHashem

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 7:51 am

chanchy123 wrote:

Yes, there is MORE change. More people who don't fit into boxes requesting change, making their own shuls and schools. But there is still a mask of sorts for society, like you come to get your kid into school and play dress up to do so.

Although they all know you don't usually dress like that and half the other parents who send there don't either.

grace413

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 7:57 am

Rappel wrote:

There may not be a difference halachically but there is a massive difference hashkafically.

Just the fact that the average torani person uses the internet and the average haredi person views internet as a necessary evil for parnasah at best indicates a huge gap between the groups.

The whole matter of life long kollel versus working for a living is another deep divide.