Moving to EY with teenagers

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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions

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ukmom

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 5:26 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

I'm sorry but this thread is a little out of control. Look into Beitar. Many Anglo families, at least half the class in the girls school are Anglo Haredi, no bullying, fantastic teachers. Cheder - some nasty little boys, but no different than you'd expect to find in any school system anywhere. This is Eretz Israel people. It's the culmination of the dreams of Am Yisroel for thousands of years. Now you get to pick up and come, and continue the transmission of the dream through your generations? Please.

If you need further convincing, Israel is expecting 100,000 new olim this / next year due to the country's successful handling of COVID.

Gut Shabbos x

THANK YOU! reading some of these replies is making me feel 😞 we need positive energy and encouragement! I’m aware of the problems that may be encountered and am following our Rovs advise who knows us personally.sure it won’t be easy, but it’s doable. I believe a lot is about attitude and realistic expectations. I’d love to hear from people who made it work with teanagers or women who made Aliya as teanagers them self’s.

Gut shabbos and gut Chodesh to all

Rappel

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 5:34 am

grace413 wrote:

There may not be a difference halachically but there is a massive difference hashkafically.

Just the fact that the average torani person uses the internet and the average haredi person views internet as a necessary evil for parnasah at best indicates a huge gap between the groups.

The whole matter of life long kollel versus working for a living is another deep divide.

I know many Torani whom don't use the internet except for work, and many DL kollel families. I also know haredim whom have internet in their homes, and many haredim whom work for a living. As you say, the halacha which unites us is universal; hashkafic differences, personal.

I'd be happy to continue this conversation with any and all whom want to, but I feel really bad derailing ukmom's thread. TMI

Let's carry on in a private message? I have nothing more to add to this thread right now, since I made aliyah alone as a young adult, and she specifically wants to hear from parents of teens.

banana123

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 5:44 am

ukmom wrote:

You hit the nail on the head.

It is ALL about attitude and realistic expectations. Not a lot of it. Almost ALL of it.

The more you know, the better off you are.

amother

Bronze

Fri, Apr 24 2020, 6:11 am

Banana's right. It's a big privilege and a zechus to live here, and you don't make it by griping about biscuits and ketchup brands (see that UK biscuit thing I did there.) Our kids were very little when we made aliyah, but I have teens now and they're great. They have their moments of course, but we love who they are becoming. The older kids of our friends are fine people too. Mature, sharp, fun, smart and love their Yiddishkeit. Can't generalize but I'm only saying what I see in my own daled amos. Look into this seriously. It's magnificent.

LovesHashem

Sat, Apr 25 2020, 1:17 pm

ukmom wrote:

In was 14 when my parents moved here.
Feel free to PM me Smile

amother

Aquamarine

Sat, Apr 25 2020, 1:26 pm

I think that when you come, it's important to be stable in your finances and your marriage, so that your kids feel secure. You don't have to be a multimillionaire, but kids, especially teens, pick up on financial and emotional strain. They need to have the sense that their parents are somewhat in control of their lives. We also budgeted for a lot of family time, so that we had a sense of family solidarity.

Giving kids the feeling that the family unit is doing well was very important for us, and we've seen that families who do well generally have that going for them.

ukmom

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 2:22 am

We are b’h stable both financially and in our marriage. Our main focus is schools. We would move wherever the best school for our kids are. Looking for Anglo Chareidi type school for easier transition. Looking at Chatam community in rechovot and Ramat Beit Shemesh Alef. Can anyone advise further? Girls high school in either area? Where in rbs are most of the Anglo Chareidim?

byisrael

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 2:58 am

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

Ha ha ha, funny joke, and such great advice- not! You show an inconsiderate reaction to real problems, like bullying, which destroys a child's childhood. Do you have any iota what it feels like for children to move abroad to some strange place, learn a new language, try to make friends and then to be physically beaten by their Israeli peers, because they are "friers" (I.e., nice and well behaved)? My 6 year old who lived in Israel since he was a toddler does. Despite perfect Hebrew and only knowing Israel as his home, he was still picked on, and often came home with bruises and literal cuts from the "nice" frum boys in his class. Or how about my 9 year old, who was tortured for her English accent and because she's "chutznik." Or how about my 3 year old who was hit, pushed and knocked over by the older boys at school, and was so terrified to go, he would cry in the mornings? Do you really expect small children to "stand their ground?" When people say that, what they usually mean is "tell your kids to be jerks right back." Not everyone wants to live in a dog-eat-dog world. Some people enjoy living like civilised metschen. Some people don't call bullying -which is abuse- love. And those people better think real hard before throwing their kids into the Israeli school system.

Baruch Hashem our kids had many friends and supportive peers in Israel. BUT, the bullying at Israeli schools is out of control, and OP should understand that her kids will get figuratively eaten alive by some Israeli kids. It will be 1, 2 or 3... but those few kids will make their lives miserable. And the Rebbes, Morahs or Menahel will do nothing to stop it.

After several years of living in Israel, and with children who speak better Hebrew than English, we left. We realised that so many Anglo teens who grew up in Israel are no longer frum or at best have serious psychological damage from the cookie-cutter and group-think mentality, in addition to the trauma their Israeli peers inflicted upon them. Of every family we know which made aliyah with kids- several of the kids moved back, and now the families are split up on different continents.

Our kids are much happier, have nicer friends and ironically more interested in Torah since we left, since it's not being taught in such a stressful environment.

Let's not whitewash the problems of the Israeli school system. It's really different socially than in the UK or USA, and OP is taking a very big social, educational and financial risk making aliyah.

Just want to say that my sibling and I experienced EVERY SINGLE THING you described in our Lakewood Schools and the benefits you describe from moving away from Israel are the benefits we got moving here to a more OOT charedi community (not Anglo) despit having zero command of Hebrew.
I believe the issues ppl tend to conflate with the "Israeli Charedi System" have more to do communities growing to fast for the infrastructure to keep up which creates schools that are to big, an emphasis on the externals of yiddeshkiet, the schools become elitist = the kids become elitist, the staff feels like they did you a favor by accepting yopu so they don'y owe you anything....

saramalka

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 5:57 am

The Anglo beis yaakov girls high schools in RBS are hashkafa dependent.
Ko tomar
Bnos harama
Pearlstein
Pnenei Chen
Sharansky

ukmom

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 7:59 am

Thanks SaraMalka, could you expand slightly on each school pls

amother

Lilac

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 9:23 am

I live in rbs
you know what I see often?
lots of anglo kids who went off the derech because they thought it would be ok to go from chareidi american/English to charedi israeli. Huge risk and very often people have deep regrets and then its too late. The % is HUGE. Ask any chinuch expert here and they will tell you the truth.
I beg you at this point.
wait till your kids are married and then come.

Jewishmom8

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 9:28 am

saramalka wrote:

The Anglo beis yaakov girls high schools in RBS are hashkafa dependent.
Ko tomar
Bnos harama
Pearlstein
Pnenei Chen
Sharansky

fyi most of those schools are full for next year and are extremely hard to get into.

amother

Lime

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 9:35 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Most of the American chareidi families that make Aliyah to RBS with families are not typical American mainstream yeshivish. nothing wrong with Aliyah but in America it’s unheard of to make Aliyah if you’re mainstream yeshivish- the ones that do are usually a it different. There are exceptions, but all families I know that moved and made Aliyah did not fit into mainstream BY and Yeshiva system in America and moved to RBS and went to chareidi schools which was not a good match.

ukmom

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 9:39 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

But are there not schools with lots of Anglo kids? With special programs to help Olim? What about Magen Avos schools?

saramalka

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 10:11 am

Magen avot is gan until 8th grade

naturalmom5

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 10:35 am

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

OOC, what hapoens if a child had enough and cones to school with mace , pepper spray, or a gun

Will it take a few Columbine stories for Israel to wake up...

LovesHashem

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 10:47 am

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

Good point.
As someones who has been through the high school system here there were PLENTY of Israeli kids from my grade who went OTD - it doesn't matter if you made aliyah or not the issue is NOT that you are american or BT - the issue is if you are teaching an entirely different chinuch than the school and at home are saying "Oh well this rule doesn't apply to us" or "This is a chareidi thing, we don't have to do it".

It's sending your kid to a school and subconsciously encouraging them to break the rules so they can fit in to their school at school and your home at home.

You need to be fully aware of what a BY school here looks like and if you are willing to live that lifestyle.

LovesHashem

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 10:52 am

ukmom wrote:

But are there not schools with lots of Anglo kids? With special programs to help Olim? What about Magen Avos schools?

There are.
But you have to want to integrate into israeli society. Many of the schools only want people who truly want to integrate into the israeli system and hashkafah.

Magen Avos isn't typical BY.

amother

Red

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 11:00 am

What if your kids are in modern bais yaakov's/black hat yeshivas.

We are not secretly online or watching sports. The hanhala knows and we all work together as a team.

Where would a family like that belong in Israel? Does it exist?

LovesHashem

Sun, Apr 26 2020, 11:46 am

amother [ Red ] wrote:

You need to conform to the schools here. It seems you will fit in with the Chareidi crowd more - but you will have to conform to a strict BY. There's not really modern BY here. The more modern schools wouldn't be black and hate would have their kids online..

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